The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss - Latest Comments in Youse, Y’All, and Other Confusions of Modern English

Re: Youse, Y’All, and Other Confusions of Modern English

Scott — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 19:05:44 -0000

I'm from Nashville and as far as I'm concerned "y'all" should be a national pronoun. Oh well, I guess you can't have your cornbread and eat it too.

Re: Youse, Y’All, and Other Confusions of Modern English

Ludo — Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:55:09 -0000

Hi!

I can't help but comment on the OP's remark: "After all, German is basically Old English with a funny accent, right?". Unless I am missing a tongue-in-cheekish attitude here, it needs to be noted that of course it's the other way round: English is basically (very) old German... ;-)

Re: Youse, Y’All, and Other Confusions of Modern English

Kath — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 17:09:32 -0000

I cringe every time I hear someone say "youse". Back home (Australia) it's only the bogans (undereducated Australian versions of rednecks or hicks) who say "youse" and it really grates me. I don't think anyone in Australia says "y'all" but I like it, and have even wanted to slip it in to conversations. It just seems so relaxed, and I mean when most Australians speak we kind of go into a habit of relaxing and letting all our words run together (even those of us who don't have accents like Crocodile Dundee!!) e.g. When do you want to leave this afternoon? becomes Whendja wanna leave sarvo? So I like the idea of saying y'all. Anything to shorten a word!

Re: Youse, Y’All, and Other Confusions of Modern English

Justin — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 23:36:31 -0000

I live in the northeastern part of Texas and we hear "y'all" quite frequently, but I can't say that I hear "all y'all" very often. We use "y'all" as a plural. I don't know why "you all" wouldn't be plural. It seems quite redundant to say "all you all".

Y'all have a nice day.

Re: Youse, Y’All, and Other Confusions of Modern English

Denise — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 04:08:46 -0000

I used wicked today out of no where. I surprised myself so much that I don't even remember the context. I haven't even seen my best friend from Boston (now DC) since last Christmas!

It's completely common to use "you guys" in California, although I realize its a generational thing and not really appropriate. However, I can't think of another option that's not equally awkward/out of place. I'm just glad people quit using "hella". That was definitely a Northern Californa thing, as I had never heard it until I moved here from Phoenix.

Re: Youse, Y’All, and Other Confusions of Modern English

Kerry — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 03:36:02 -0000

Fairly common in NZ is 'you fellas' instead of 'you guys', particularly amongst blue collar workers, ie 'howz you fellas going'.

Re: Youse, Y’All, and Other Confusions of Modern English

Alayna — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 23:02:57 -0000

y'all is for large groups of people and y'uns is for smaller groups of people...or at least that's how we speak in Arkansas

Re: Youse, Y’All, and Other Confusions of Modern English

Rick — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 00:48:22 -0000

You lads is not at all better to me if the issue becomes one of gender as a female is not a lad at all. It is the same no matter the accent added. "You people" does fit in most if not all situations as does "you all" or just "you". I think the same as Vicki and Shane on the usage of "y'all". If it were not plural wouldn't people have no reason for it as "you" would do the job just fine?

I try to avoid using "you guys" and I am Canadian but yes it is the standard.

Re: Youse, Y’All, and Other Confusions of Modern English

Tawny — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 21:31:18 -0000

"You guys" seemed to jump in popularity in the mid 1980's after the film "Goonies" was released.

For those of you that remember, the catchphrase of a character named "Sloth" happened to be "HEY YOUUU GUUUYS!"

So if you want to blame anyone for "You Guys," blame Speilberg and his writers.

Re: Youse, Y’All, and Other Confusions of Modern English

TomA — Mon, 19 May 2008 14:28:45 -0000

Hmm, it seems to me that this post and subsequent discussion got off on the wrong foot and just kept chasing its tail (and, yes, I do sometimes like to knowingly mix my metaphors to effect).

In perfectly standard American English one can use "you" and "you all" to distinguish 2nd person singular and plural where that is important and not immediately obvious from context (language class being a prime example of a setting in which something usually perfectly well understood from context needs to be made explicit). Sure, abbreviating it and adding a twang make it a cute Southernism, but it can be used without either and be perfectly well understood throughout the U.S. Is this not so?

The distinction between "y'all" and "all y'all" is one of emphasis not number (If I'm not mistaken, the corresponding singular form is something like "yer" ;)).

All the discussion of "you guys", "youse", "y'ns", etc is just a discussion of local vernacular, I'm afraid, and none is actually necessitated for unambiguous communication.

Certainly "you lads" sounds infinitely better with the appropriate Irish accent, as does "y'all" with a Southern lilt, "youse guys" sounds tough if a bit on the under-educated side and, I suppose, if I were more used to it, I would find "you'ns" to have positive emotive associations, as well. But is there really anywhere that one could not use "you" and "you all" to cover all the ground that needs covering without slipping into a more provincial vernacular?

If I'm wrong, here, I'd definitely be interested in hearing about it!

Re: Youse, Y’All, and Other Confusions of Modern English

Lisa — Tue, 13 May 2008 16:50:21 -0000

Being from the very Deep South (Alabama) with a minor in English from Mississippi State University, I believe I qualify as an "expert" on the matter of y'all. Jake is absolutely correct. Y'all is a contraction of you all, thus plural. I have heard people use "all y'all" and it is equivalent to "all of those present". I love the colloquialisms of our great country no matter what region and regret that more and more the local traditions and phrases are being homogenized.

Re: Youse, Y’All, and Other Confusions of Modern English

Shane — Sat, 10 May 2008 03:47:21 -0000

I've gotta agree with Vicki. "Y'all" is plural since it's only an abbreviation of "You All" or "All of You". I've never thought to use "Y'all" as a singular 2nd person before, but I suppose it could, but only really improperly. And "All Y'all" doesn't make sense because it is like saying "All of all of you," but it does sound cool and I say it frequently myself :)

And just so you know, the usage of "y'all" isn't limited to the southern states. I'm a native of Central Oregon and amongst the old-timers, the ranchers, farmers, and cowboys "Y'all" and some weird expressions are still used such as "Well, we're fixin' to head on outta here" or "What can I do ya for? (What can I do for you?)".

Though I have to say its getting pretty rare to hear things like that ever since the Californian Invasion of the 90's.

Re: Youse, Y’All, and Other Confusions of Modern English

vicki — Fri, 09 May 2008 14:11:30 -0000

Okay, my 2 cents on the "ya'll" discussion:

"ya'll" is plural. "you" is singular. The southern Kentuckians were pulling your leg Bill (who posted on April 16). I am from and live in central KY. I occasionally here "all ya'll" which is redundant, however, it is generally used for emphasis. I don't use it at all, but I grew up in Lexington (I didn't move here from another county, and didn't spend much time in either of my parents' hometowns when I was growing up). Generally speaking, ya'll is used more by people here if they moved here from a more rural area. Native Lexingtonians and probably native Louisvillians use it less. You will hear it a lot, if you're passing through, because there has been, and continues to be, a lot of migration from smaller towns in KY to Lexington and Louisville, and the greater metro area of Cincinnati.

And for those innocents on the board who naively believe they "have no accent"... *sigh* .... Everyone has an accent!!!!

"You don't have an accent" is something people tell you when you speak with a modified version of the accent they expect you to have, or with an accent you picked up from the television or which doesn't have a clear connection to your geographic origins.

Most actors (at least those who aren't from the south originally), butcher the usage of "ya'll". The only non-southern actor who (in my opinion) does a passably authentic southern accent is Kurt Russell, who nailed not just a southern accent in "Dreamer" but more specifically the central KY accent, which has some subtle variances. IMDB shows he is from Massachusetts, so he really did his homework. I was impressed...

Tom Cruise, Johnny Depp, George Clooney, and Ashley Judd are all from KY.

End of my 2 cents...

Re: Youse, Y’All, and Other Confusions of Modern English

Katrina — Thu, 08 May 2008 08:36:27 -0000

My son (4) is a Taiwanese-New Zealander and lives in Taiwan. Last time we went home, the first phrase he picked up was "you guys", and he found it very useful. By the end of the holiday he had also learned the (very Kiwi?) "Youse guys."

Re: Youse, Y’All, and Other Confusions of Modern English

Robin — Tue, 06 May 2008 09:40:53 -0000

I'm from NY and I live in Michigan now. Michigan is the home of ebonics. Y'all is not out of place here. Even in NY I used it as the more popular "youse" is just an ugly word, let's face it. And while I can manage to say "y'all" without sounding like a redneck or a street kid, you can't say "youse" or "youse guys" without sounding like a movie mafia boss.
I have expounded on my use of ya'll, and how everyone should use it at great length on more than one slightly tipsy (and not at all tipsy) occasion. My biggest pet peeve, aside from misuse of the word whom, is people who use y'all as singular. And "you guys" is tacky, unless you are addressing "the guys" specifically. My girlfriends and I are not about to grow penises just so that grammatically confused English speakers can plural their yous at us.

Yes. Y'all is elegant. Let us embrace it.

Re: Youse, Y’All, and Other Confusions of Modern English

Justin Morrow — Mon, 05 May 2008 21:48:16 -0000

Topics near and dear to my heart.

I am from Phoenix, and we don't use the word "yall" normally. But at Arizona State I had a roommate from the south who did every once in a while. I love it now...its like soup for the soul. I even brought it on my exchange abroad, although it was not received well, in fact most slang is not.

Another word worth examining is the word; eh. Like the Canadian colloquialism. I use it once in a while, when I am in a cheeky mood. At least the word chesterfield (thanks grandma) when used in reference to a sofa is not around anymore, too clunky.

Where I live 'guy' singular is commonly replaced with Bro, or dude. However, we do say 'Guys'. Example; "Hey Guy" is not an acceptable greeting, but, "What are you guys doing for Cinco De Mayo" is perfectly acceptable. There is a HEAVY Southern California flavor in Phoenix.

Very interesting subject, thanks for the thread.

Re: Youse, Y’All, and Other Confusions of Modern English

phuesken — Mon, 05 May 2008 21:12:17 -0000

Also note the various meanings of "innit":
http://www.bbc.co.uk/voices...

"We need to decide what to do about that now innit." (don't we?)

"Now I can start calling you that, INNIT!" (can't I?)

"I can see where my REAL friends are, elsewhere innit!!" (aren't they?)

"I'll show young Miss Hanna round to all the shops, innit." (won't I?)

"I heard he was good in TNA when he was there so he can still wrestle good innit?" (can't he?)

(via Kottke: http://www.kottke.org/remai...

Re: Youse, Y’All, and Other Confusions of Modern English

tlm — Sat, 03 May 2008 11:52:38 -0000

Hi,

Thanks for the interesting topic. Just a few responses to these posts:

(1) Speakers need to be able address a group of people that doesn't include them and well, they will use whatever resources are available. People will use whatever resources are at hand "you" to "you, no, not just you, I mean all of you" to "you guys" to "ya'll" to "youse" and "youse guys." The thing is, we all use language as a way to differentiate ourselves from others, so when we hear something other than "you" which is the Standard English form (whatever Standard English is), we apply social meaning to it. So when someone uses "ya'll" we link it to the South--and all of the possible social connotations of southern folks--even though, "ya'll" is used, and has been used for a long, long time across other parts of the U.S. We link "you guys" to teen or young adult speech--and the stereotypes about being teens--even though "you guys" is something that has been around for quite a while, people who are in their 30s and 40s have been using "you guys" most of their lives, so it's not really a teen thing, but we can read it that way. All of this is to say that people (me included) make some pretty harsh judgments about other speakers based on language use. We can't do this with race or gender anymore, but we sure can judge others based on the way they talk.

(2) The contraction "ain't" was mostly used by upper class folks until the turn of the 20th c. Once common folks started using it, it fell out of fashion (i.e., it was no longer considered grammatically correct) and became the uncouth word it is today.

(3) And, by the way, everyone, and I mean everyone, me, you, your mother, your uncle, Dan Rather, and everyone else in the world has an accent!

Re: Youse, Y’All, and Other Confusions of Modern English

Joe Garwood — Thu, 01 May 2008 15:53:54 -0000

Tim's right of course, but "ain't" also is a logical southern contraction of "there isn't any." Took me a while to figure that one out as the "a" is moved to the front of the word to make the contraction, but it still works. I still don't like the way it sounds, but I'm originally a Canuck so forgive me. "Eh" on the other hand, what in hell is that?

Re: Youse, Y’All, and Other Confusions of Modern English

Mathias — Thu, 01 May 2008 12:48:29 -0000

In french we use different pronouns for singular and plural forms:

Tu - singular you (informal/casual)
Vous - plural you

But there is a subtility (it's french you know, just a tad complicated). You can substitute 'tu' by 'vous' to obtain a formal singular form. But it's only contextual because there is no difference in spelling whether you are adressing a single person or a group.

That is all :)

Re: Youse, Y’All, and Other Confusions of Modern English

Mike — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 15:37:17 -0000

Since you wrote an article on language use, I find the error in the text below funny.

What about just adding as “s” and calling it a day?

Wouldn't it be wise to go back and correct as to an? You probably allow this to happen as a "small bad thing". However, you are promoting proper use of language and using it inproperly.

###

LOL... good idea! In a final twist of irony, I think you mean "improperly" and not "inproperly" :)

Tim

Re: Youse, Y’All, and Other Confusions of Modern English

Greg — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:04:25 -0000

I agree that "you guys" is for informal situations. I cringe when I see a host or hostess at a restaurant address an older couple as "you guys"!!!

A polite way to address them would be "you folks", or "folks".

I agree with the entry above that recommends "you gentlemen" and "you ladies" for formal situations and for mixed gender groups, formally it becomes "you folks".

In California, if a public speaker repeatedly addresses the audience as "y'all", we cringe!!

Re: Youse, Y’All, and Other Confusions of Modern English

Anne — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 00:09:05 -0000

English has lots of natural, simple ways of getting around this "problem":

Why not just say "you all" when you mean 2nd person plural? e.g. "Would you all like something to drink?"

How about "Who'd like some lemonade?" or "Is anyone ready to order?".

I grew up on The Electric Company's "HEY YOU GUUUUUUUUUUYS!!!!!" and that's what I think of every time I hear it or say it. Plus I'm not a guy so it just doesn't feel quite right when I'm addressed that way.

If I'm trying to convey a casual, colloquial feeling I'll say "Y'all" but I think I might switch to "Ye" - that's a little more fresh, in a retro kind of way!

Thanks for the post!

Re: Youse, Y’All, and Other Confusions of Modern English

Lola — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 17:35:26 -0000

Born in Cajun country Louisiana; “brought up” in southern Mississippi- my sister and I both made a conscience effort to not have accents. People sometimes ask where I’m from with unmasked disbelief that I am born and raised Deep South (with Cajun infusion). A random guy at a store with a ZZ Top beard told me I sounded like I was from “Mahzerra er Mishergan er oner them places”. I’m pretty sure he was just trying to list off all the M states he could think of.

I high school, my friends and I prided ourselves in speaking “proper” English: “chest of drawers” instead of “chestadraws”, “Tuesday” instead of “toosdee”… partly due to being in the theatre department where you could be graded harshly at competition if you spoke with an accent when your character didn’t have an accent.

After years of work to eliminate my southern drawl- sometimes I want one. The word “ya’ll” is a guilty pleasure. It’s the smoothest and sweetest of all the plural “you” options. It makes the most sense to me, but I hesitate when I say it for fear of “sounding country”. If I could pick up a certain accent, it would be the refined Georgia drawl. Sounds like home-canned peaches and old money.

I don’t actually know many people who say “all ya’ll”, though. I mean, we just went through the trouble of cutting down you and all, why would we want to add another all to that? Our drawl has us talking slow, the overuse of conjunctions helps to bring us back up to speed. Most people just use “ya’ll” for groups and a conjunctive you for singular.

“Have you eaten yet?”
Singular: “Ya’eat yet?” (This was actually on a local billboard)
Plural: “Have ya’ll eaten?” (proper) or “Ya’ll’ve eaten?” (informal)

“What are you doing?”
Singular: “Wha’ya doin’?”
Plural: “Wha ya’ll doin’?”

“You just did something dumb and I hope you have learned a lesson from it.”
Singular: “That’ll learn ya”
Plural: “Ya’ll’s ignant:”

There are some things that I believe Southerners say better than anyone. Case in point: Pecan. “Pehcahn” is a tasty pronunciation where as “peecan” sounds like what country folks use when their toilet stops working. I mean really, which would you rather have made into a pie?

Oh, a little lagniappe for you: the coastal town of Biloxi is pronounce Bu-lux-ee. =^) I’m just sayin’.

Re: Youse, Y’All, and Other Confusions of Modern English

Sockless Joe — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:56:36 -0000

Other than the relatively accepted spelling of "yinz" as classic Pittsburghese, there's little point in trying to figure out the precise spelling of the Yinz/Younz/You'uns/Yuns spectrum of pronunciation as it is almost exclusively a conversational word and almost never written down.

The exact pronunciation of Yinz varies throughout Western and Central Pennsylvania. (And apparently beyond, from above comments.)