The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss - Latest Comments in Trading Places with Indian Outsourcers

Re: Trading Places with Indian Outsourcers

Dey Irfan Adianto — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 11:40:27 -0000

this is a really good video. it opened up my mind quite a bit.

At one point I'm extremely pleased by the fact that the tedious business-related errands can be done by someone who is ACTUALLY HAPPY to do it. For 1/4 the price! and it could be less. But then i had my doubts. Is it sustainable? Since the karma of unsustainability always catch up in the end, never up front. Then, this thought went into my head.

You see, I'm an indonesian living in Singapore currently. For a Singaporean, an income of S$500 is not that much. Actually, it's the typical income of a waiter. Convert that to Rupiah, which is Rp 3.800.000, then that is considered a lot for someone who lives in Indonesia. That is the usual salary for a middle-class manager working 9-to-5 in some company. How can this be? Simply because it doesn't cost much to live there.

So i guess outsourcing can be a win-win deal. You pay a small amount of money to someone to do your job. But for them it's a lot of money since their living cost is not that high, compared to our first-world standard that we are living in.

life CAN be filled with abundance

Re: Trading Places with Indian Outsourcers

Laura — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 01:48:45 -0000

NO matter what, the USA is the best.

Re: Trading Places with Indian Outsourcers

Benny — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 02:25:59 -0000

this video makes me feel good that I'm going to be outsourcing to a VA firm in India. I'll be making profit and supplying jobs to a less fortunate nation at the same time. talk about a win win situation.
"stealing american jobs" lol. loss of a few jobs will not result in further poverty in america. our poverty is a time deficit rather than a monetary deficit (although this exists too) and is spiritual in nature. thanks for posting ;D!

Re: Trading Places with Indian Outsourcers

Dave C — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 06:24:26 -0000

Andrea Yager,

These issues with people "getting it" exist in IT and beyond regardless of weather the peroson doing the work is sitting next to you or at the other side of the world.

I think this sums it up http://www.businessballs.co...

Dave

Re: Trading Places with Indian Outsourcers

Yak! — Sat, 27 Dec 2008 22:30:37 -0000

Wow...I been to India...but I went to all the turisty places...nothing like this...I will go back sometime this year.

Reinvent and Reimagine thats the key.

Re: Trading Places with Indian Outsourcers

Jordan — Thu, 06 Nov 2008 22:58:53 -0000

Tim have you seen Outsourced The Movie?

It is exactly what it sounds like in modern times: outsourcing in India.

Not only is it a fictional film that people totally fall in love with but the producers travel around the US to give talks at business seminars and to educators. The movie is American made and filmed in India. It's heart warming. You'll like it.

Re: Trading Places with Indian Outsourcers

Happy Tolly Dancer — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 11:52:55 -0000

Thanks for the awesome book!
I'm trying to re-organize my life even though it seems quite difficult for me. I'm doing my doctoral degree in IT and working part-time that seems a full time job. I've read half of the book and trying to outsource some tasks that I don't have much skills and consumes a lot of my time.
I can't even cut down 10% of work time but I'm trying. Everything seems having to be done shortly at pretty much at the same time and I miss going to the dance class!

Re: Trading Places with Indian Outsourcers

Rohan F — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:23:09 -0000

I agree with Roshini.

I am an Indian born and raised in Mumbai. I have had friends from Bangalore who are anything like the Ranjans. My apologies, but hey seem to be stuck in the middle ages and yes seem artificial. On a more professional level, Telemarketing jobs are readily available and not a prestigious career. Being a call centre manager is another ball game altogether.

Jobs in India are definitely not easy to find. The good jobs are already spoken for and are rare to come by.

Currently, I am a resident Canada ( 8 years now) and the opportunity to work and change jobs is unbelievable. I do not think that the 4HWW would be a 'thought' if I had been in India. We have a lot of opportunity here too. Some are just lazy and spoiled that we do not avail of the resources around us. I truly believe that ' you can succeed anywhere if you have the will and the resources to do so' Tim Ferris proved it. And now I follow suit....So ends my rant!

Go ahead people, have fun doing what you do best !

Re: Trading Places with Indian Outsourcers

Jet Set Life — Sat, 06 Sep 2008 23:43:16 -0000

Hey Tim,
Just watched the video (downloaded it on itunes). Incredibly interesting to see the other side of outsourcing. I think sometimes we forget that there are real people on the other side of those phones. I have outsourced almost all of my muse at this point and am so grateful to the work that their doing to help me live my four hour work week.

Re: Trading Places with Indian Outsourcers

Frank — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 04:23:24 -0000

Oh dear... Now the knowledge economy is gone we really are doomed! Who is going to buy your house now?

My last (onshore) project had 100 Indians on it - not just developers but Testers, Business Analysts, Project Managers etc. Plus 10 Russians, and 20 Chinese. There were only 5 native developers.

One questions - why are you handing control of your air traffic control systems, missile systems, banking and finance systems etc to the Chinese, Russians and Indian Muslims i.e. people who hate you in the West. Do you honestly think that I can protect the integrity of the code when I am overwhelmed? Do you know how easy it is to insert (if month = 02 day =29 then powerDown) into the code and build it?

Re: Trading Places with Indian Outsourcers

Roshini — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 06:26:06 -0000

I am an Indian IT professional but working in Dubai. A lot of effort has been put into this, but somehow the entire core seems to be shaky.

There seems to be too much of a generalisation : Seeing a few villages in Bangalore cannot give you an idea about how India is.

Some of the incongruencies that I noticed :

The Ranjan family seem to be very artificial, almost runining the authenticity of the video, as a south Indian I could not help cracking up at some of the crazy things they were doing.

Telemarketing is definitely NOT something that has high regard among those with professional technical degrees! This video makes it sound as if it is considered to be a prestigious career!!!

Jobs in India are definitely not easy to find. The number of applicants per available position is mind boggling and there are tens of thousands of unemployed IT professionals in India.

Oh and we have been getting milk delivered on our doorstep in hygenically sealed packets...for the past 30 years :)

Chris' comments about poverty appears as if there is no poverty back home!

Re: Trading Places with Indian Outsourcers

Gaëtan Voyer-Perrault — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 01:18:34 -0000

@Natalie
Welcome to the new economy! (I hope that your rant was cathartic, now get over it):
Managers earning $10,000 a MONTH. Executives earning literally $20,000 to $30,000 a MONTH...American corporations are laying off 700 people who earn $25K to $50k a year while they need to cut back on executive and management salaries.

Calling managers over-paid is no more or less short-sighted than called the "drones" underpaid. It's a free economy. If firing executives and managers was actually the solution to the problem, one big firm would already have done that and now they'd be out-performing the competition.

Honestly, what you're missing here is that those people making 10-30k / month are likely indispensable at even that salary. They are operating high-responsibility jobs that likely hinge on knowledge and skills that you don't currently have. In almost all cases, they've earned that position through extensive education, training and experience.

You're right about what you tell your nephew: "I am training my nephew (who I am raising) to be self sufficient b/c his loyalty will mean nothing to an American company.", this is indeed the new economy. But there's more to it than that.

You're an intelligent, obviously literate person, your post was basically free of spelling errors (and that's saying a lot these days). You're hanging around a pretty heady (if eccentric) website like Tim's blog. So my question is, what are you doing?

Why are you working A/R and call centers? Why aren't you worth 10k / month? What did you do last month to make yourself indispensable to your company? What did you do last month to grow revenues? Are you getting a fair cut for these efforts? Why not?

It's fun *(& popular) to say that business executives are "overpaid". But people have been making that argument since the dawn of time. You live in a world with about as much free choice as any that humanity has ever known, so you don't really have the "evil tyrant" excuse to fall back on.

For every argument you can make about rich, fat-cats ruining America and sending jobs overseas, I can make a counter-argument about lazy American workers who don't carry their weight, don't get enough training and don't take enough initiative. This is not a "winnable" argument, we're talking about a global balance built in a highly dynamic framework played out over generations.

The fundamental reality remains unchanged. You can either generate money and become indispensable or you can bleed money and get laid off. Companies don't lay off generators unless they're in their death throes. Generators don't have a rough time finding work, b/c some rising ship will pick them up (they're like found money).

It's nobody's fault, it just is.

Re: Trading Places with Indian Outsourcers

Gaëtan Voyer-Perrault — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 00:35:46 -0000

Thanks for the great vids Tim.

@Steve Dalton: "Computer programmer" here and I think that you're half-way right about your "Agile" comments. Yes, Agile is the new way in which we will develop software and yes, some people in other countries may be "behind the curve". But honestly, companies in the US are not necessarily on the curve either.

Most programmers I know (and have met) do some hashed-up version of waterfall and agile because they're not really comfortable at either. They've never written unit tests, they don't talk to clients, they don't storyboard. Heck even some of the agile people can devolve into "Agile as an excuse to be sloppy" (link)).

At the end of the day, becoming an adept and productive software developer requires a host of skills, a lot of education and even more experience. Building good software currently needs at least a few talented and skilled people. The best software developers are still 10 times more productive. It's easy to claim that outsourcing software has been a failure, but most Western firms aren't exactly in a position to claim success. Software development is still horribly misunderstood and generally poorly managed even at top firms.

And don't think that Agile provides anything more than a temporary edge. Cheaper workers will also "discover" Agile, they'll catch up too. Remember, you're in a knowledge worker's economy, but you're living in a country where the motto is "no child left behind". My friends who grew up in the Ukraine learned derivatives, integrals and linear algebra in high school... at age 16!

This guy's an out-of-work computer programmer and he's been out of a job for at least a month (based on the intro). What's he doing? If he didn't have interviews lined up the day he got laid off, then he should have at least been doing professional certifications while he hunted for a new job.

Re: Trading Places with Indian Outsourcers

Ishani Mitra — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 15:35:21 -0000

Thanks Tim for the excellent video. It gives us all a new perspective to think about and understand why Indian virtual assistants are afvourite picks for most of torganisations looking at outsourcing.

Re: Trading Places with Indian Outsourcers

Peter Power — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 03:35:21 -0000

I enjoyed reading the book FOUR HOUR WORK WEEK. I agree with the author about outsourcing. I had good experience outsourcing my work to three Indian companies: (a) www.Getfriday.com (b) www.Writer4me.com and (c) www.b2kcorp.com (Brickworks India). They made my works simple. I look forward to more books from the author.

Peter

Re: Trading Places with Indian Outsourcers

Online Dividends — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 10:33:36 -0000

Thanks a lot for posting this. I was wondering if anyone here has used outsourcing to produce blog related content? Seems to me that if you price your article at $2-$3 to your writer, and you manage to get $5+ from advertisers, then you have created a viable business model..

Re: Trading Places with Indian Outsourcers

christi — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:53:18 -0000

The people who are rich in this country, do not get it by belonging to a rich family..."old money"family. They had learn how to create a business,make profits, market; or hire people to do these things...and they needed passion. Now, these things are not exclusive to just a handful of people, which is to say.when we talk about "rich people", the big corporations taking money, taking the jobs to give to others overseas...we need to realize that these monster companys started at the beginning. It took time to grow these companies...and the people who did it, not saying that some were not scoundrels...but the people who did it had nerves of steel...they put in a lot of work to get there. Can we do the same thing...instead of us complaining about our jobs being taken away from us by the big corporations and given overseas.....do we have the audacity and the guts to start our own business and grow it to the level of those monster companies...these companies began with "one idea' and "one or a few people". They are not superhuman, they are regular human beings. See, it is easy to attack these corporations...and its CEO's instead of pointing our own finger back to us...and see our own selves in the mirror. Are we lacking something....are we doing enough to have a good future...or are we waiting. Working a job does not cut it anymore...we have to have more vision...we have to have more innovation to help us if we do lose our jobs. The writing has been on the wall for a long time..but we as a country we were asleep at the wheel....now we see that we have change.

Re: Trading Places with Indian Outsourcers

christi — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:37:42 -0000

Americans, many of us, are very slow in adjusting to the new economy, which is very global. Since we are becoming very global, we are going to have to give up some of our comfort zones. This is not the 1980's, not the 1950's, not even the 1990's. This is a whole new ballgame. The traditional job market here has changed drastically. It is only the Americans who can not adjust to this new economy who will lose out. Americans, I include myself too, are good at complaining...when we really have it much better, even when we do lose our jobs, than many people around the world. Like I said...it is time for us not to think that somone owes us something..even though we work for them...we need to begin to think we owe ourselves a good life. Which means, stop complaining about how many jobs you lost, be thankful you do not live in India, which still has massive poverty, and recreate your skills. Go to back to school, start your own business, go for another job, talk to people who know how to operate well in this new economy. Guess what...those manufacturing jobs, some of the tech jobs, and certainly the call center jobs...may and will leave. It is time we realize the kind of job market we are getting into and be proactive, instead of hopeing that we do not lose this job..and then cry about it when we do.

Re: Trading Places with Indian Outsourcers

christi — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:29:24 -0000

I made a mistake in the last post..i meant to say "In America...we do "not" have restrictions......

Re: Trading Places with Indian Outsourcers

christi — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:28:21 -0000

Tim..that was an amazing video! In America, just like what was stated in the video, we do have restrictions...or as compared to many other countries around the world. We can redefine ourselves very quickly. If we lose a job, we can quickly develop another way to earn money, or get another job. That is the beauty of America...we are very innovative, and are allowed to become innovative and owners of our own work and business. Americans have been "babied" for too long.....instead of us thinking that we owe ourselves a good life, we think that somenone owes "us" a good life. That will only dig a deeper hole for this country to fall in. Instead of being so insultnig about outsourcing, we need to take full advantage of it and use it to help us make money. Places like Elance, gives the small business owner, or even an employee, an affordable avenue to use outsourcing for their own tasks.

Re: Trading Places with Indian Outsourcers

Barry — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:11:52 -0000

I thought the guy was very balanced and didn't react when they started talking about the Indian engineers being more talented - fair play to him

Re: Trading Places with Indian Outsourcers

Lenora — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:19:37 -0000

Hi Tim,
I was rereading your book and had an idea I wanted to bounce off you--what are the odds that I could outsource finding a muse to India, selecting one and then automating it? Am I jumping the gun a bit or am I actually on to something?

Many Thanks,
Lenora

Re: Trading Places with Indian Outsourcers

Natalie — Sun, 22 Jun 2008 17:11:30 -0000

I read a lot of comments on this post, but did not read them all, but it would seem that most of the ppl here have not lost their jobs to outsourcing. I have. TWICE. I was a Accounts Payable Representative (one of the lowest level jobs at the company) and was paid $12.00 per hour. I was living check to check (nope, no credit cards and no car payment at the time). It is expensive to live here in the US which is why Americans need well paying jobs. I found another job within the same company as a call center representative (the irony is eerie), but I was angry for a couple years and then decided to get on with my life. Eventually this job would be outsourced too.

It just so happens that the call center I was working in was payroll. I got to see everyone's salary. Managers earning $10,000 a MONTH. Executives earning literally $20,000 to $30,000 a MONTH. I see execs and managers with 401Ks that have $900,000 balance. That is the problem with American corporations. It is not us. It is not the little employees at the company causing any financial problems, were just the ones who get picked to lose our jobs. I do not buy into the whole competition thing. American corporations are laying off 700 people who earn $25K to $50k a year while they need to cut back on executive and management salaries. Our company investors pressured our company to do something about the proceeds they were receiving in their investments so the company starting taking American jobs to appease their investors. If you know anything about accounting, if you lay off some piddly workers now your salaries expense becomes revenue.

In 2004 when I lost my job to outsourcing I KNEW then that the economy would crash. Our American jobs are tied into our HEALTH CARE for example. We lose our jobs now we have a healthcare crisis in this country. Our retail industry is suffering b/c we do not have jobs and thus no disposable income to put back into our economy.

I was going to buy an new car next year, but I am not going to do that now b/c once it is paid off I will be free of that debt and since there is no loyalty among American employers anymore I cannot guarantee I will be able to afford to spend my money. Now all I do is save just in case I am laid off again.

I am training my nephew (who I am raising) to be self sufficient b/c his loyalty will mean nothing to an American company. There is no point in making someone else a millionaire by working 40+ hours a week if the thanks he will get is a pink slip.

Re: Trading Places with Indian Outsourcers

Premshree Pillai — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:11:28 -0000

It's amazing how under-researched the documentary is and how narrow the narrator's perspective is.

I will agree with one thing, though: Bangalore is turning into a nightmare.

Re: Trading Places with Indian Outsourcers

Nidhi Gupta — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 05:34:01 -0000

hey Sindhu...that was quick and so nice!