The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss - Latest Comments in Time Management Guru-itis: Mark Hurst vs. David Allen and Tim Ferriss

Re: Time Management Guru-itis: Mark Hurst vs. David Allen and Tim Ferriss

Dart — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 01:04:38 -0000

I also haven't read Bit Literacy, but there are people who think being and sarcastic is an effective sign of wit.

But concerning the main discussion, there is no doubt a need for everyone working in this information age to use both a top-down and bottom-up approaches. Which one to focus and start with may depend on current level of productivity, choice of career and of course, personality. But generally, it helps to first have fundamentals of top-down approach to have an overall picture and then manage what's filtered by effective principles with a lean flexible bottom-up system.

I have read GTD, 4HWW and 7 Principles found them all very helpful (although Covey was a bit long-winded). I have also found helpful Tony Robbin's system in "Time of Your Life" which is one way to integrate Top and Bottom approaches ...

In the end, like Tim said, it is "personal" productivity. So find what works from what you read and learn. But don't read too much. Test tips. Be flexible. Don't overplan. Eliminate physical and mental junk. Take action on the important things. etc. etc....

Re: Time Management Guru-itis: Mark Hurst vs. David Allen and Tim Ferriss

DanGTD — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 04:32:19 -0000

For a GTD implementation that includes also the up-bottom approach from Stephen Covey (Goals, so you know you work on the right things), you might try out this web-based application:

Gtdagenda.com

You can use it to manage your goals, projects and tasks, set next actions and contexts, use checklists, schedules and a calendar.
A mobile version is available too.

Re: Time Management Guru-itis: Mark Hurst vs. David Allen and Tim Ferriss

Sara Schiffer — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 12:43:18 -0000

Question for Tim or successful business owners:
What is the first step to start successfully? And what are the next three steps towards success? How can I figure out a timeline that is reasonable but takes me as quickly as possible to targeted income? I plan to start a coaching practice and eventually make it a coaching business. Any help would be very welcomed! And I can throw in some coaching for your time!

Re: Time Management Guru-itis: Mark Hurst vs. David Allen and Tim Ferriss

KCLau — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 10:51:29 -0000

I couldn't agree more with you - checking email probably wasted most of the precious time that is supposed to be used productively.

Re: Time Management Guru-itis: Mark Hurst vs. David Allen and Tim Ferriss

Nancy Whitney-Reiter — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 01:07:54 -0000

Wow, this entire exchange makes me extremely leery of reading what competing authors may have to say about my own book. I heard an interview with Tim today and was so impressed that I came to this site. It's kind of disappointing to see this very public fall-out, although I guess it served its purpose by driving me to visit both author's blogs.

[Hi Nancy. Thanks for the comment. I had been intending to write a post about GTD and other approaches + 4HWW, and addressing Mark's factual inaccuracies just fit in. I have nothing personal against Mark at all, of course. -Tim]

As is apparent by the title of my own book, I'm a big fan of email reduction, especially while on a "mini-retirement" (what I call unplugging). Being able to shut out the external chatter and focus on what our hearts are trying to tell us is key to any Personal Journey, and I love how Tim applies this to the world of business as well.

I'm looking forward to reading Tim's book and wish him much continued success.

Re: Time Management Guru-itis: Mark Hurst vs. David Allen and Tim Ferriss

Kishore Balakrishnan — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 07:39:52 -0000

Please clarify the relevance of the numbers used in the picture within the post..

Re: Time Management Guru-itis: Mark Hurst vs. David Allen and Tim Ferriss

Lena West — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 01:15:03 -0000

Hi Tim:

Thanks for the link love! For those who don't know, I am the person who wrote the article to which Tim is referring.

I wanted to clear up a couple of things:

1. The content in question is my monthly column for Entrepreneur - not a blog post as indicated in the first paragraph of this blog post. I also do have a blog of the same title with Entrepreneur Media and I wanted to clarify this to avoid any confusion.

2. As for Mark Hurst's 20 minute response to my email...I say that not everyone can have a NY Times best-selling book and when the media comes calling, as I did with Mark, especially when the journalist tells you they're from Entrepreneur Media, it's best to be overly responsive rather than not responsive enough. I don't think replying to a media request for an interview within 20 minutes as a "reactive mode that precludes life" - I think it's a rather smart strategy for someone who's trying to get their book some visibility.

I think you put it best when you said "...at least the type of life I want to have". Responding to a media request may not be at the top of your list, I don't know...I certainly can't speak for you and don't presume to do so. Maybe you outsource this task, again, I don't know. But, I do know that everyone has their method for increasing productivity and visiblity and for some people that means responding to urgent media requests ASAP.

Thanks again for the linkage!

-Lena

Re: Time Management Guru-itis: Mark Hurst vs. David Allen and Tim Ferriss

Life Coach Directory — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 14:57:32 -0000

Mark Hurst's response to Tim is worth a read. He sounds very afraid!

http://goodexperience.com/2...

Re: Time Management Guru-itis: Mark Hurst vs. David Allen and Tim Ferriss

Drew Kossoff — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 05:53:47 -0000

Another powerful life management system that bridges the gap between old and new is Mark Joyner's Simpleology (http://www.simpleology.com) because you can use it offline (which is what I did when it first came out) or online (which is what I do now). It's the best system I've found (resonated with my style far better than Getting Things Done).

Re: Time Management Guru-itis: Mark Hurst vs. David Allen and Tim Ferriss

Dave — Fri, 30 May 2008 15:38:50 -0000

Tim,

Love your book. It's been the thing that's finally tied all my random knowledge together to bring about an understanding of the way things should be (at least for me anyway).

Got to say though that I think your comments at the end could be taken as a thinly veiled threat, particularly as you have a video of Brue Lee kicking a man off his feet.

I could be way off, but there was a hint of the unnecessary here for me.

Perhaps I'm alone here, but I thought I'd say it anyway.

You're a good man - there's no doubt.

All the best.

Re: Time Management Guru-itis: Mark Hurst vs. David Allen and Tim Ferriss

Chris Henry — Fri, 30 May 2008 07:07:58 -0000

I have read numerous books on this subject (including GTD), the fact is - none have driven me to action like Four Hour Work Week. I am continually looking for ways to automate my life to enable me to spend more time with my family and make more money. This could be due to timing, or ambition, but I think the truth is that the book makes you challenge the notion of traditional work, and really opens your eyes. It has allowed me to treat my work life like a machine for the purchase of examination, and so far so could - I have eliminated almost 6 hours of tasks within a given week, which has enabled me to spend more time on creative tasks - which will make me more money, and give me more time with my family.

Tim, don't take the article personally - he is just trying to make a living. You have to remember that each person's ideas are like pictures of their kids (they are always the best). Rest assured, I (and many others)have chosen your techniques and will continue to.....

Re: Time Management Guru-itis: Mark Hurst vs. David Allen and Tim Ferriss

Kevin — Fri, 30 May 2008 05:37:42 -0000

Your comment of "eliminate before you optimize" really struck a chord, and reminded me of how lean manufacturing and six sigma are complementary but must be performed in a certain order.

- Six Sigma is about optimizing processes
- Lean manufacturing is about removing waste (and respect for people)

If an organization jumps on the six sigma bandwagon without first doing lean manufacturing, they risk optimizing wasteful processes... a common occurrence in the business world.

This prompted some more thoughts along those lines - click on my name.

Kevin

Re: Time Management Guru-itis: Mark Hurst vs. David Allen and Tim Ferriss

B Smith @ Wealth and Wisdom — Thu, 29 May 2008 17:58:50 -0000

Tim-Don't let Mark get you too riled up. Remember the saying about @$$holes and opinions...

Re: Time Management Guru-itis: Mark Hurst vs. David Allen and Tim Ferriss

MacEwen — Thu, 29 May 2008 17:34:25 -0000

I love the GTDInbox for gmail. That is one of the most dynamic tools ever. I have all my teams use it.

If you aren't already, switch to Firefox and put the GTDInbox tool to work. http://gtdinbox.com/ When you check your e-mail once or twice a day...

Or when your assistant, or programmer, or book-keeper check theirs during the day, knowing that everything is ordered according to a shared "filing" (labeling) system with consistent reviews scheduled is a true efficiency.

I believe most management can take place in the digital space. This tool is very powerful and frees a lot of time, energy, and communication.

Enjoy!

MacEwen

Re: Time Management Guru-itis: Mark Hurst vs. David Allen and Tim Ferriss

John Morgan — Thu, 29 May 2008 14:16:50 -0000

Tim, great point about how the more often we check our email the more often we respond, etc. This one tip has helped me be more productive. I'm actually a blackberry user although I never reply to emails from it. I used to check my email 4-5 times a day. Now, I don't check my email 4-5 times a week.

Re: Time Management Guru-itis: Mark Hurst vs. David Allen and Tim Ferriss

Duff McDuffee — Thu, 29 May 2008 13:31:13 -0000

The anti-Mark Hurst comments seem harsh to me, and seem to perpetuate misconceptions of Bit Literacy vs. 4HWW vs. GTD vs. 7 Habits vs. ZTD etc.

In my opinion, Bit Literacy is very much compatible with techniques from 4HWW, including email batching, personal outsourcing, etc. Merlin Mann also recommends getting your inbox to 0 daily. David Allen seems to also lean in this direction. The gurus are in agreement!

If you don't wish to learn the inbox 0 discipline, you can always outsource it, but in that case, your VA is then doing the inbox zero processing for you. Help me out--I just don't see the conflict here.

In my last startup venture, we applied principles from GTD, 4HWW, Bit Literacy, and other sources as a team. As a company we cleared our email inboxes to 0 nearly every day, and we decided what kinds of things would be handled via email vs. phone vs. meeting. We found no fundamental conflicts between the various systems, although the implementations do vary at times.

I personally found Mark's terse writing very enjoyable. I also enjoyed Tim's writing, and David Allen's, and Stephen Covey's, and Leo Babauta's. Every author has a different voice and can be enjoyed for their own unique qualities. I found the clarity of Mark's writing put me into a meditative state.

When I interviewed Mark, I found him to be flexible in his thinking, and open to however someone wants to solve the problem of email overload for themselves. Of course he also had his own preferences, as we all do.

There is value in all of these books and approaches. However you want to handle your life and your work is ultimately up to you, and I think each of these authors get this.

Re: Time Management Guru-itis: Mark Hurst vs. David Allen and Tim Ferriss

Walter Reade — Thu, 29 May 2008 12:53:59 -0000

Bit Literacy was a huge disappointment. I can't recommend it to anyone. The only thing I liked was the title.

On the other hand . . .

I recommend 4HWW to everyone.

And I keep spare copies of GTD to give to people I like.

Re: Time Management Guru-itis: Mark Hurst vs. David Allen and Tim Ferriss

Ventura — Thu, 29 May 2008 11:42:17 -0000

Hi Tim,

Your life philosophy or philosophy of life is incredible and very
contagious.

Thanks for all.

Ventura

Re: Time Management Guru-itis: Mark Hurst vs. David Allen and Tim Ferriss

Michael Liner — Thu, 29 May 2008 11:34:39 -0000

Hey Tim
Loving your book at the moment as I churn through it. Hope you're having a great time in Greece - any Ouzo Cruises between the islands? hehe

I agree with the common sentiment of 'different strokes for different folks' coming through here with the variety of techniques/guidelines. I must say you open a whole new dimension in future planning and achieving (or 'dreamlining' as you so eloquently put it!).

I'm currently in the throes of deciding what to do with life and relocating/restructuring my internet based dietary supplement/social tonic business due to a law change and impending arrival of baby number two at the end of June AAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!! Or as my 17 month old son Patrick put it so beautifully "Ohhhh Noooooor!"

I can see some parallels to BrainQuicken with my products. I also think I have couple that would prove complimentary to yours if life ever gave us a chance to talk sometime?
I guess I'm more the proverbial 'ideas man' with a self-taught background in natural medicine (Western, Ayurvedic and Chinese incorporating plant pharmacognosy and amino acid interactions) trying to make things get off the ground (been trying for three years now hehe) - I'm hoping to iron out some of the creases with your guidance as well as the MBA I'm completing by distance. We shall see what happens.......... ;)

Hmmmmmm.........If only I could turn a relative hourly rate of $1000 into more than four hours work a month!?!?!?

If only Google Adwords would let me back on their site!?!?!?!

Okay....enough whining!

Where's that book of Tim's????? ;)

Take care buddy!

Mike and Family
Launceston,
Tasmania,
Australia

Re: Time Management Guru-itis: Mark Hurst vs. David Allen and Tim Ferriss

Mark Hurst — Thu, 29 May 2008 10:34:44 -0000

Tim - my reply here:
http://goodexperience.com/2...

Safe travels to Greece.

Re: Time Management Guru-itis: Mark Hurst vs. David Allen and Tim Ferriss

timferriss — Thu, 29 May 2008 09:16:44 -0000

Hi All,

Thank you so much for all the great comments and comparisons. I love hearing how people are able to pick and choose the elements from different sources. As it should be.

@Lithe:

Thank you for the great story and excellent points. You brought up a MAJOR point that I always forget to mention. 4HWW was never designed to necessarily be a start-to-finish book, and I never expected all readers to use all of the book. It was written in a modular fashion so that people could pick and choose appropriate techniques like food in a buffet. Thank you for bringing this up and contributing!

@Brian W:

I am a big Bruce fan, but I don't actively pursue JKD, as I believe he was essentially trying to manifest a version of MMA when the lack of tools and practitioners precluded it. He loved Judo Gene, for example. Bruce did have a much sharper philosophical bent than most MMA fighters, but his tactical and experimental approaches were very similar. I think he would have come to similar conclusions as those now being borne out in the octagon.

Off to Greece, ladies and gents, but I did schedule a post for y'all in the meantime :) Ta ta!

Pura vida,

Tim

Re: Time Management Guru-itis: Mark Hurst vs. David Allen and Tim Ferriss

Xox Ma — Thu, 29 May 2008 09:03:09 -0000

"This is the reason some investment banks (I was introduced to one of largest at the Web 2.0 conference in 2007), as well as forward-thinking tech companies, have policies — complete with punishments for non-compliance — limiting inbox checking to 2-3 times daily."

Would you care to name the particular bank? Because from where I stand, they encourage their people to be 24x7 connected and available. Even the French ones (at least in NY).

P.S. How do you get introduced to a whole bank? :-)

Re: Time Management Guru-itis: Mark Hurst vs. David Allen and Tim Ferriss

Andrew — Thu, 29 May 2008 08:50:34 -0000

I just didn't "get" Mr Hurst's book. It sits on my shelf barely opened because having flicked through it (I ordered from Amazon so no "flick" opportunity until it arrived!) and previewed the sections I thought looked most interesting I was really underwhelmed by his insights. I felt the same way about Mark Joyner's "Simpleology" (although I read this cover to cover).

4HWW and GTD on the other hand sit on my desk and both are showing the signs of being plundered on a regular basis. There is depth to both books alhough they are very different.

Andrew

Re: Time Management Guru-itis: Mark Hurst vs. David Allen and Tim Ferriss

Stuart Edamura — Thu, 29 May 2008 08:23:32 -0000

What Mark Hurst and many others don't seem to realize is that there is no one system that works for everyone. We all need to look at various possibilities and find the one (or converge a few) that works best for each of us individually. Anyone who professes to have the one solution for all is selling something.

And that is just what Mark Hurst is doing...and one can see why. I have read all the books. I have come to my own system that works very well for me which uses principles of GTD, 7Habits, 4HWW and a few other things (such as the Now Habit) sprinkled in. I refined my concepts over time based on my own personal habits, foibles and personality traits and then applied a system of low-tech (pencil and paper) along with web 2.0 to create my personal system. I consider Covey, Ferris, and Allen as gurus and I find myself rereading sections of their books often.

Bit Literacy on the other hand was a disappointment. The system was not as well refined nor was the underlying principles. And the underlying principles are a key element - the thinking behind the system can be as important as the system itself, especially to those of us who customize. Add in the poor writing style of Bit Literacy and I found it less than useful. Rather than gaining space on my bookshelf it was donated to the library.

I think that is the key explanation why Mark Hurst has chosen a path of denigrating other authors. GTD, 7Habits and 4HWW have developed core followings because of their value. And each continues to grow as readers pass on the message to others (I know I do). Bit Literacy lacks the inherant value so word of mouth will not be as strong a vehicle. And when you have an inferior product, tearing down the competition may seem a better path forward than letting your product sell itself.

And that is also why the comments on the Entrepreneur Blog post are not relevant to the long term. For in the long run marketing never trumps quality.

Re: Time Management Guru-itis: Mark Hurst vs. David Allen and Tim Ferriss

Edwin — Thu, 29 May 2008 05:49:25 -0000

I agree that Mark's book is not great. I also wrote a review, mainly about the tools. I like the tips about keyboard accelerators and such, but his todo list and email approach is just not feasible for a lot of people.
Also this photo organizing thing is only applicable if you take many photos. I have the same as another commenter - I live music, not pictures.
He also makes mistakes - for example claiming that you need 14 steps to put an Outlook message in your todo list. AFAIK you can drag-drop it and your done. In Entourage you have built in scripts.
Anyway - here is the list with the tools for the Mac from his book that I found valuable: http://productief.net/blog/...