The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss - Latest Comments in Stoicism 101: A Practical Guide for Entrepreneurs

Re: Stoicism 101: A Practical Guide for Entrepreneurs

chrisb — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 12:03:05 -0000

I'll take a crack.

I will rephrase the question to be, "Can a philosopher remain happy despite torture?"

The stoic James Stockdale, USN (1923 – 2005) answers yes.

From "The Stoic Warrior's Triad":

"In a crucible like a torture prison, you reflect, you silently study what makes those about you tick. Once I had taken the measure of my torture guard, watched his eyes as he worked, watched him move,felt him move as he stood on my slumped-over back and cinched up the ropes pulling my shoulders together, I came to know that there was good in him. That was ironic because when he first came in with the new commissar when torture was instigated after I got there, I had nicknamed him "Pigeye" becauseof the total vacancy of the stare of the one eye he presented as he peeked through cell door peepholes. He was my age, balding and wiry, quick, lithe and strong, like an athletic trainer. He was totally emotionless, thus his emotionless eyes. He had almost no English-language capability, just motions and grunts. Under orders, he put me through the ropes 15 times over the years, and rebroke my bad leg once, I feel sure inadvertently. It was a court martial scene and he was having to give me the ropes before a board of North Vietnamese officers. The officers sat at a long table before Pigeye and me, and behind us was a semi-circle of soldiers bearing rifles with fixed bayonets at a kind of "dangle" position, the bayonet pointing at the cement floor ahead of them. This was in the "knobby" torture room of "New Guy Village" at Hoa Lo prison in August 1967-so-called because the walls had been crudely speckled with blobs of cement the size of an ice cream scoop in a "soundproofing" attempt. I could tell Pigeye was nervous because of these officers whom I had never seen before, and I don't think he had, and he pressed me flat over my bad leg instead of the good one he had always put the tension on before. The healing knee cartilage gave way with a loud "pop," and the officers looked at each other and then got up and left. I couldn't get off that floor and onto my feet for nearly two months. In all those years, we probably had no more than 24 hours, one-on-one together. But neither of us ever broke the code of an unvaryingly strict "line of duty" relationship. He never tricked me, always played it straight, and I begged no mercy. I admired that in him, and I could tell he did in me. And when people say: "He was a torturer, didn't you hate him?" I say, like Solzehnitsyn, to the astonishment of,those about me, "No, he was a good soldier, never overstepped his line of duty." By that time, I had learned that fear and guilt are the real pincers that break men's wills. I would chant under my breath as I was marched to interrogation, knowing that I must refuse to comply, and take the ropes: "Your eyes must show no fear; they must show no guilt." The North Vietnamese had learned never to take a prisoner "downtown"-to the payoff for what our
whole treatment regime was about-public propaganda exploitation-unless he was truly intimidated, unless they were sure he felt fear. Their threats had no meaning unless you felt fear. They had suffered the political damage of several, including myself, who had acted up, spoken up, and blurted out the truth to the hand-picked audience of foreigners at the press conference. Book IV of Discourses: "When a man who has set his will neither on dying nor upon living at any cost, comes into the presence of the tyrant, what is there to prevent him from being without fear? Nothing."

http://www.usna.edu/Ethics/...

Re: Stoicism 101: A Practical Guide for Entrepreneurs

Mark Wilson — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 01:28:02 -0000

I want to write a long comment to contribute something to this but I can't think of anything, so all I have to say is...Great post!

Re: Stoicism 101: A Practical Guide for Entrepreneurs

Carrick — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:12:53 -0000

Thank you so much for writing about this. A long while ago I'd found pop self help sorely lacking (just think positively!! Why? Just because!!), so I turned to the philosophers for some REAL examination on how we should live life and why, so thanks for a) turning me on to the Stoics, which I hadn't thought of looking into, and b) for speaking to us like adults. ;-)

Re: Stoicism 101: A Practical Guide for Entrepreneurs

Ron Oltmanns — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 23:40:11 -0000

Good posting Tim. So Seneca's your man? I like Marcus Aurelius, and a colleague pointed out to me that Epictetus lies at the source of Albert Ellis' ground-breaking work (see A Guide to Rational Living) that led to Cognitive Behavioral therapy. Ryan does a nice job of showing how the Stoics were able to put philosophy to work and actually do exercises that break you free of your mental junk. Many people these days are in a mental funk with the economy down--these thought experiments are good for giving yourself a mental tuneup and getting re-centered on your own power.

"What then is to be done? To make the best of what is in our power, and take the rest as it naturally happens." Epictetus, Discourses

Re: Stoicism 101: A Practical Guide for Entrepreneurs

Andrés Hax — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:44:37 -0000

I also recomend: Epictetus: A Stoic and Socratic Guide to Life [Paperback]
By: A. A. Long and Thoughts of a Philosophical Fighter Pilot (Reprint ed.) [Paperback]
By: Jim Stockdale

Re: Stoicism 101: A Practical Guide for Entrepreneurs

Dave Ridarelli — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:33:03 -0000

"How much time he gains who does not look to see what his neighbor says or does or thinks, but only at what he does himself, to make it just and right."

- Marcus Aurelius

Re: Stoicism 101: A Practical Guide for Entrepreneurs

Michael Benton — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 12:35:36 -0000

Awesome-I log onto this site for the first time, and lo!-you have included a picture of the St. Francisville Inn Bed and Breakfast at the Wolf-Schlesinger House on the front page! Wow-that's reaffirming. Hope you enjoyed my hometown, if only briefly!

Re: Stoicism 101: A Practical Guide for Entrepreneurs

Taryn — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 02:33:09 -0000

Hi Tim,

We met at El Rio last Saturday. I took your advice and googled your friend Kevin and happened upon you. It was nice meeting you that night. Thanks for showing us your Michael Jackson moves!

Taryn

PS My friend didn't break his foot!

Re: Stoicism 101: A Practical Guide for Entrepreneurs

bill_lyons — Sun, 19 Apr 2009 20:01:53 -0000

Very cool! A new distinction and a new way for me to look at things and solve them!

Re: Stoicism 101: A Practical Guide for Entrepreneurs

Doug Barton — Sun, 19 Apr 2009 17:26:55 -0000

Tim,

Thanks for bringing this back to mind. I read Marcus Aurelius in college (a long time ago) and remember being struck by his view of the relatedness of all people. In a practical sense, he gave much the same guidance as might be found in Christian philosophy, albeit for different reasons.

From the quote above:

"The people I deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous and surly. They are like this because they can’t tell good from evil, which sounds a lot like "Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do."

Also:

"...and have recognized that the wrongdoer has a nature related to my own–not of the same blood or birth, but the same mind, and possessing a share of the divine." Since then I have understood, "Love thy neighbor as thyself" to imply that in some sense, your neighbor IS yourself: you share the human condition (the same mind) and share a bit of the divine spark.

I find it's easier to deal with difficult people and situations when I remember that ultimately, we are all doing the best we can and we are all connected.

Doug

Re: Stoicism 101: A Practical Guide for Entrepreneurs

Gennaro — Sun, 19 Apr 2009 15:27:50 -0000

Seems that we've entered a time of 'potpourri' philosophy. It's a wonder if a person can call themselves a Stoic or Buddhist or Utilitarian if they're only taking certain aspects of those belief systems. That being said, following the philosophy of The Enchiridion would certainly land you closer to a life of zen.

Re: Stoicism 101: A Practical Guide for Entrepreneurs

jeanieknowles — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 23:21:38 -0000

Not sure if you have noticed, but Tim Ferris' video from EG conference is on the front page of TED.com.

Re: Stoicism 101: A Practical Guide for Entrepreneurs

Nikki — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 20:07:23 -0000

Loved the piece! It's a lesson in life......the good, the bad and the ugly. We can just say "Today I will be Happy"

Re: Stoicism 101: A Practical Guide for Entrepreneurs

Rebecca Brown — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 14:11:23 -0000

Just watched the Ted talk you did awhile back. If you haven't come across Dr. Montessori's genius work regarding education, I encourage you to pick up The Absorbent Mind. She developed a method to support effortless reading and writing. You might find it useful in your quest to understand the components of functional educational system. She did it all from an analytical, scientific, and compassionate place that is rare (perhaps Jane Goodall is a fair comparison). Cheers, Rebecca

Re: Stoicism 101: A Practical Guide for Entrepreneurs

Darren Michaels — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 13:45:53 -0000

AWESOME...once again, I applaud you and your efforts to share with the world the principals of your lifestyle. I am doing my best to implement as many of the suggestions as possible; having written three books myslef, I would love for sales to rise enough for me to have an automated lifestyle and allow me the freedoms you experience. I will keep you posted on my progress.

Thank you.

Re: Stoicism 101: A Practical Guide for Entrepreneurs

Andy — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 10:41:44 -0000

Hi Tim,
Here's your test comment!
Great article!

Re: Stoicism 101: A Practical Guide for Entrepreneurs

Jonathan — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 10:37:32 -0000

Amazing article... I love the way this blog creatively combines very diverse and interesting subjects.

Thanks for sharing

Re: Stoicism 101: A Practical Guide for Entrepreneurs

John Soares — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 10:14:02 -0000

I see substantial parallels between Stoicism and philosophical Taoism. Both focus on accepting what is, trying to understand the underlying reality of life and the world, and how to best make one's way in the world.

Re: Stoicism 101: A Practical Guide for Entrepreneurs

Elle X — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 09:28:34 -0000

Good post. Thanks Ryan and Tim!

Re: Stoicism 101: A Practical Guide for Entrepreneurs

Leona Henry — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 23:36:28 -0000

Great article. Funny thing is, we were talking about Stoic philosophy before this post came along.

I have very little time ATM so I will comment only on living the misfortune part for the moment: I wholeheartedly agree with ths idea, I actually went out of my way to practice the misfortune (temporarily left my luxury downtown residence to live in a horrible trailer in the ghetto) and it has helped tremendously to overcome the comfort trap. Not to mention it gave me the motivation and energy to make progress with my business startup and get back into serious networking. It allowed me to break free of stagnation, lethargy an anxiety caused by comfort. Of course it doesn't have to be so extreme for everyone, but it was necessary for me, and it worked for me. Now I know I can survive anything and the thorns on the path are not going to stop me from getting where I want to be.

I recommend reading moer quotes from Marcus Aurelius an Seneca for more insights :)

Re: Stoicism 101: A Practical Guide for Entrepreneurs

Matt — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 21:24:45 -0000

a romantic figure, I should say

Re: Stoicism 101: A Practical Guide for Entrepreneurs

John — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 21:23:01 -0000

‘According to nature’ you want to live? O you noble Stoics, what deceptive words these are! Imagine a being like nature, wasteful beyond measure, indifferent beyond measure, without purposes and consideration, without mercy and justice, fertile and desolate and uncertain at the same time; imagine indifference itself as a power - how could you live according to this indifference? Living - is that not precisely wanting to be other than this nature? Is not living - estimating, preferring, being unjust, being limited, wanting to be different? And supposing your imperative ‘live according to nature’ meant at bottom as much as ’live according to life’ - how could you not do that? Why make a principle of what you yourselves are and must be?’ ’Beyond Good and Evil’ by Nietzsche

‘It may be beneficial to consider what is often called ‘mental anguish,’ to ensure that the purely ‘painful’ elements do not distract from the analysis. A young man suffers because of the death of his bride of only 8 months. His grief is terrible because he loved her passionately; and so he suffers. Yet, if he was asked: do you wish to be relieved of you grief? he might hesitate. If it were possible for a laser to burn out of his brain precisely those cells which retained his memory of her, he might well refuse to submit to this therapy. The enormity of his grief, he may realize, simply is due to the enormity of his love. Had he not loved so much then, he would not grieve so much now. He may wish he could go back in time, or that she had not died, but even in his extremity he realizes the futility of such thinking. Thus, although he may bitterly resent his need to suffer and grieve, he would not opt to grieve at her death, for that would mean her death did not matter. Thus some kinds of suffering, such as grief, cannot be foresworn without the forfeiture of something so precious that the suffering demands acceptance.’ ‘Truth and Existence’ by Michael Gelven

‘If Machiavelli is right, if it is in principle impossible to be morally good and do one’s duty as this was conceived by common European, and especially Christian ethics, and at the same time build Sparta or even Periclean Athens or the Rome of the Republic or even of the Antonines. Then a conclusion of the first consequence follows: that the belief that the correct, objectively valid solution to the question of how men should live can in principle be discovered, is itself in principle not true... The idea of the world and of human society as a single intelligible structure is at the root of all the many various versions of natural law - the mathematical harmonies of the Pythagoreans, the logical ladder of Platonic Forms, the genetic-logical pattern of Aristotle, the divine Logos of the Stoics and the Christian Churches and of their secularised offshoots. The advance of the natural sciences generated more empirically conceived versions of this image as well as anthropomorphic similes: of Dame Nature as an adjuster of conflicting tendencies (as in Hume or Adam Smith), of Mistress Nature as the best way to happiness (as in the works of some French Encyclopaedists) ... This unifying monistic pattern is at the very heart of traditional rationalism, religious and atheistic, metaphysical and scientific, transcendental and naturalistic, that has been characteristic of Western civilization. It is the rock, upon which Western beliefs and lives have been founded, that Machiavelli seems, in effect, to have split open. So great a reversal cannot, of course, be due to the acts of a single individual. It could scarcely have taken place in a stable social and moral order; many beside him, medieval nominalists and secularists , Renaissance humanists doubtless supplied their share of the dynamite.... it was Machiavelli who lit the fatal fuse. ’The Originality of Machiavelli’ in Against the Current by Isaiah Berlin

Stoicism may be useful as a secularised version of the Protestant work ethic but without its metaphysical justifications it seem little different from nihilism to me.

Re: Stoicism 101: A Practical Guide for Entrepreneurs

Matt — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 21:17:32 -0000

Tim,

I see you as a romantic
(as in romanticism).
Would you agree?
Your thoughts on romanticism?

Thanks,

Matt

Re: Stoicism 101: A Practical Guide for Entrepreneurs

Raven — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 19:16:32 -0000

One more comment. I think the interpretations of stoicism that it is about emotional reserve and a striving for placidness amidst turmoil is inaccurate or at the very least just one tiny molecule of what the original thinkers intended. Bertrand Russell criticized it because he said it meant that if we weren't happy, we had to accept not being happy. I think the hellenistic writers were alluding to the process of personal accountability and ethics. That process is a subtle one because our society and our communication habits support lack of accountability in thought, word, and action. Hence, we are trying to understand and analyze an ethical paradigm from an unethical context. To be accountable at a core level is experienced somatically utilizing cognitive processes as a tool only. The perspective that stoicism is about rising above or suppressing emotion misses the point because it is a cognitive interpretation of an emotional/somatic experience. Stoicism deserves so much more depth of critique.

Re: Stoicism 101: A Practical Guide for Entrepreneurs

Raven — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 19:04:40 -0000

This post is the first of yours I've read and it sparked me off in a million directions. I ended reading about covalent bonding. lol. I didn't know the first thing about molecules until today. Tks for the inspiration!