The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss - Latest Comments in Savant School: How to Memorize 10,000 Numbers and More

Re: Savant School: How to Memorize 10,000 Numbers and More

adrian — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 22:46:32 -0000

Hello there Im having a hard time learning United States Code statutes. Theres like 60 of them do you know and easy way of remember these. Please help .Thanks, Adrian

Re: Savant School: How to Memorize 10,000 Numbers and More

Abdo — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 00:38:55 -0000

I want just to remember my phone list. I think this technic is difficult.

Re: Savant School: How to Memorize 10,000 Numbers and More

PJ — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:01:35 -0000

FREAKY COINCIDENCE (Had to share.)

To practice, I picked 4 numbers at random:

7821.

At first, I couldn't come up with a word, until I tried:

CVNT = Savant!

Then I remembered the 7 is supposed to be soft c, but you can bet I'll remember the number either way!

Re: Savant School: How to Memorize 10,000 Numbers and More

mark — Fri, 05 Oct 2007 20:19:00 -0000

i wanted to know where i can learn japanese. i am in california (SF) and want to become fluent. any recommendations. i read your book and really liked it! but i cannot find a recommendation on where to study a language (to learn it in 6 months)
thanks!
mark

Re: Savant School: How to Memorize 10,000 Numbers and More

Pat Browne — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:19:55 -0000

I just took a workshop with Jim Wiltens (JimWiltens.com) called Secrets of a Super Memory. He says we really have an extraordinary capacity for memory, but our retrieval system is really lousy and can be trained. We may think we have a bad memory, but the ability is there, and lots of memories are in there that we just have no way to recall. We learned 3 or 4 memory techniques in the class, applying them to things such as learning names and foreign languages, and immediately saw results.

Jim has written a book called Memory Smart, which was actually written to help parents and teachers teach kids how to memorize things. He reminded us of some mnemonics we used to learn things as kids--like the year 1492(Columbus sailed...) and the ABC song to the tune of Twinkle Twinkle Little Star...There are many of them, and the fact that we still remember them today attests to their ability to work.

Jim describes 9 different techniques, applying visual, audio, and sensory inputs, and applies them to the various things kids are required to memorize in school, such as multiplication tables, states and capitals, atmospheric layers, etc. (Many of the techniques use the silly but very memorable pictures someone described above. These are linked somehow to the actual subject, or name, or word as in a foreign language, to keep the images from being confused.) He even goes beyond the basics to show techniques for learning the consonant code for memorizing numbers, how to memorize a whole book, and how to become a â€œMemory Black Belt.â€? Like a Martial Art, the memory techniques must be practiced regularly to work. And like a martial art, much of the benefit is not in the actual practice, but where it spills over into your life.

The book is geared toward kids, but the techniques are the same. Just for fun I decided to revisit my childhood and re-memorize some of this stuff, and the techniques really work. It's been less than 2 weeks since the class and I've already memorized many things, including half of the 100 numbers of the consonant system. What I have found is that my mind is becoming sharper--I'm much more attuned to paying attention to things. It seems that it is really good exercise for the mind, and from what I understand, like the body, it's use it or lose it. And it's fun. So for those who say they can just look things up, I agree, there are references for when you need them, and it may be pointless to memorize long strings of numbers. But life could be much richer if you can spend a minimum amount of time to develop memorization skills and a few facts so you have a better foundation on which to hang new insights and observations, and a better chance at retention...

Jim Wiltens works with faculty at Stanford University on Memory skills. He is a great speaker if you can get him. The technique he recommends for learning languages can be found at 200words-a-day.com We used this in the class â€“it was fun and it worked very wellâ€¦.

By the way, Jim runs what looks like a great wilderness summer camp for kids, called Deer Crossing Camp-- check his website. (JimWiltens.com)

Re: Savant School: How to Memorize 10,000 Numbers and More

Scott Pfister — Tue, 18 Sep 2007 10:01:09 -0000

This is exactly the technique I followed when trying to memorize Kanji while in Japan, using a book called 'Remembering the Kanji'. It worked great for a while, but the more of them I memorized (I got to ~1500) the images started getting jumbled, and it became more of a hinderance than a help.

I'm wondering if there's some aspect of the technique that I missed, that helps more for the long-term memorization? In my case, the more hokey the image I used (and it recommended that), the more difficult I found it to isolate the key parts of the image later.

Re: Savant School: How to Memorize 10,000 Numbers and More

Pete — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:35:27 -0000

What technique or combination of techniques was used to memorize 500 foreign vocabulary words? It seems like all the techniques you listed start with numbers, not words.

Re: Savant School: How to Memorize 10,000 Numbers and More

corkhead32 — Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:59:40 -0000

You never fail to keep posting about interesting and unrelated topics. Great blog Tim.

Re: Savant School: How to Memorize 10,000 Numbers and More

mike — Mon, 10 Sep 2007 15:25:31 -0000

i think you made a mistake in this post:

"...Using the above conversion table, 8209 could equal â€œfanâ€? (82) and â€œsoapâ€? (02)..."

shouldn't 02 here be 09?

###

Oops! Good catch! Corrected... Thank you.

Tim

Re: Savant School: How to Memorize 10,000 Numbers and More

ewonk — Sat, 08 Sep 2007 11:09:17 -0000

Mr. Cornell, while you do have a point in saying that the brain is awesome when used to develop "higher-level stuff" like coming up with new ideas and solving problems, memory is still a useful tool! Einstein also thought memorizing things was kind of silly when you have reference books and what not. But you and Einstein are forgetting something.

In our school systems (in the US) today, classes require students to memorize junk. Here are some examples:

Elementary: memorize the pledge of allegiance
Middle School: memorize all the presidents
High school: memorize the periodic table
College: memorize all kinds of units
Med School: oh the agony!

So while the brain is a great tool for coming up with new ideas and such, it's great at memorizing too, and we definitely have no choice but to memorize stuff in this day and age ... until the robots take over. 0.o

Just because some people don't have brains that aren't doing these memory tricks naturally doesn't mean that these "tricks" are crap. They're still good methods for memorizing a bunch of stuff real fast. Plus most of what we humans do nowadays are stuff that we learned from others - i.e learned habits.

Anyways. I still believe genius can be learned, along with everything else ... including a photographic memory and whatnot.

Re: Savant School: How to Memorize 10,000 Numbers and More

Matthew Cornell — Fri, 07 Sep 2007 22:15:34 -0000

I actually think these are excellent examples of why we should *not* use our brains this way. Think about it: These tricks wouldn't be so impressive if they were easy/natural. That means our brains aren't adapted for this kind of memorization. It wouldn't be a problem except memory is a bit of a zero sum thing: Taking up room with a bunch of low-level stuff (such as a billion-digit number, mental todo lists, etc.) chews up brainpower that's better used on the higher-level stuff: Thinking, coming up with new product ideas, solving problems, etc...

Re: Savant School: How to Memorize 10,000 Numbers and More

Aaron — Fri, 07 Sep 2007 22:12:07 -0000

I have always had trouble with memorization. This guys blow my mind. Dates especially have always been difficult.

Re: Savant School: How to Memorize 10,000 Numbers and More

Chino Singson — Fri, 07 Sep 2007 05:37:09 -0000

Hey Tim! Chino here from the Philippines. Amazon just delivered my copy of 4HWW, and it is amazing. I started reading your blog when I saw the post about Scoble reading 622 RSS feeds on Google Reader, and haven't stopped since. I've read the first 3 chapters so far, and I'm finally getting the courage to change my life to do what I want. Thanks and congratulations for getting a spot on the NYTimes Bestseller list!

Re: Savant School: How to Memorize 10,000 Numbers and More

Alex Berger — Thu, 06 Sep 2007 21:18:48 -0000

I've always found this stuff interesting. My question is - how does it relate to aptitudes/differences in thought processes. IE: Visual vs. Spatial etc.? While I know that the same techniques can be made to work for all types - is anyone familiar with research specifically that takes this into account?

Thanks!

Re: Savant School: How to Memorize 10,000 Numbers and More

ewonk — Thu, 06 Sep 2007 18:18:21 -0000

The loci method isn't so great because you're limited by how many items you can remember in your house/whatever to begin with.

The peg system that mbm was referring to in an earlier comment is actually the link system where you link one item to another until the end of your list.

As I understand it, the peg system is great unless your peg system isn't based on phonetic mnemonics. For instance if you just randomly pick words to associate with the numbers 1-10 in order to memorize a separate list of ten items, you'll do fine but what if you have to remember 100 items or more? How are you going to remember what number stood for what item? That's where the phonetic mnemonic system comes in ... and you covered it in your post, sort of.

Each number has a sound, so if you ever forget any number, you can sound it out with the phonetics and that will remind you of the object associated with that number. This is unlike a random list of objects associated with numbers.

Example: 1 can't be ball because it has the 't' sound. But one can be tie! The sound of the number (phonetic mnemonic) will remind you of the associated word!

Making phonetic mnemonics from 1-100 even 1-1000 etc, or using someone else's pre-made list will prepare you to use the link method (and drop the loci method) with a great advantage over the loci guys.

For instance, you could memorize PI to as many digits as you'd like by just linking your image for the first three numbers to your image for the next three. Then linking your image for those three numbers to the next, etc.

Of course, as mjw has said, learning those initial 1000 or 100 numbers might be sort of a [short] time commitment, but it could be worth it for some people.

If you can memorize the first 100 peg words, or whatever you'd like to call them, the next 900 will be a breeze! How? All you do is take your image for the number 1 and set it on fire to mean 101 or put it in ice to mean 201 or smother it in jelly to mean 301, etc.

The system is pretty easily expandable. Lets say you don't even want to go that far. Lets say you just want to memorize 100 items. Ok, just memorize the first 10. Your image for 1 might be "t"ie, and your image for 2 might be "n"oah. Don't link these, because you want 100 separate items. Now what would the image for 12 be? It could be a frozen noah! And 11 could be a frozen tie? 22 could be a burning noah, and 21 could be a burning tie! Etc.

Anyways, I hope I helped spread some ... memory love.

Re: Savant School: How to Memorize 10,000 Numbers and More

Ryan — Thu, 06 Sep 2007 17:28:59 -0000

Well described. Two systems: numbers=letters (and vice versa) item locations. Both work wonders but I find 'item locations' more practical. Lecturers in ancient Greece studied art of memory, to dramatic effect. In the day, it was common to see students wandering slowly, deliberately around Athenian buildings--memorizing features as mental reference for "storing" objects of recall. I recommend storing objects in a mental representation of your clearest "house" memory. For example, I know my childhood home in extreme detail so that's my virtual database. When I want to remember a series of objects, I mentally drop off each object in myriad room locations. Each position has a special, emotional meaning to which I may associate with the object I'm leaving there. When I want to recall all the objects, it is quite easy: I walk around the house in a standard path and collect all the objects from the standard positions. It's tedious mental work, but completely doable to memorize the entire menu at a restaurant this way. To add more layers of information, I am free to add the numbers trick. Net, if I drop off a Caesar salad at the front door to my house, and the salad costs $6.31, I think J M N which I'm free to translate as "Cumin," so I dump an absurd amount of Cumin on a Roman looking doorman who is lunching on salad. These pictures are difficult to forget, hence the detail one can remember is remarkable.

Re: Savant School: How to Memorize 10,000 Numbers and More

Jelix — Thu, 06 Sep 2007 15:36:16 -0000

Nice hack Tim! Speaking of hacking things, do you happen to have a copy of your audiobook "How I Beat the Ivy League" available? I would love to hear that as I'm planning to go to business school. Or perhaps you can make a post about it?

Thanks and keep up the good work!

Re: Savant School: How to Memorize 10,000 Numbers and More

mjw — Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:57:47 -0000

I recently talked to a competitive digit-memorizer (mnemonist?), and according to him, the standard technique among memorizers is something a bit more complicated. Basically, you associate a character, an action, and an object with each two-digit number. That lets you chunk each six-digit number into an image: Maybe 425661 is Bruce Lee (42) sweet-talking (56) a pile of rubies (61). You can then use the method of loci as Tim described. (Interestingly, this leads to odd errors with perceptual explanations -- if Bruce Lee is 42 and Jackie Chan is 98, you might insert 98 where you were supposed to have 42 if you didn't cement the image in your mind firmly enough.)

The limitation of this system relative to Tim's/Tomoyori's is the up-front time commitment. A ten-number system probably takes much less time to master than a 100-number system, especially where each number maps to three different things. However, it's much more determinate -- instead of making choices about how to shoehorn the number-sounds into words, you've got a fixed image for every location -- and more efficient (6 digits per image instead of 1-3 in Tim's example).

In theory, you don't have to limit yourself to two-digit numbers; obviously a three-digit system would be more efficient, since each image would be worth nine digits instead of six, and so on. But apparently almost no competitors have had success with three-digit systems -- I'm guessing it's just too hard to come up with 1000 people, actions, and objects that are so distinct that you won't confuse them with one another. However, I think there's at least one guy who's used a three-digit system extremely successfully.

Sorry to be so hand-wavy about all this -- I've gotten it only from conversation, so I don't have any references for any of it. But the guy I was talking to did definitely memorize 120 decimal digits in 2 minutes, and describe the images and the route he used, so I'm confident that he knows what he was talking about.

Re: Savant School: How to Memorize 10,000 Numbers and More

Benjamin — Thu, 06 Sep 2007 11:31:27 -0000

Someone once asked Einstein how many feet were in a mile. "I have no idea," he said. "Why should I fill my mind with useless facts that can be found in any reference book?"

The mind is better used for *thinking* than for storing endless facts. Yes, being able to remember Pi to 10,000 places is interesting....

...Wouldn't it be far more efficient to use the ancient reference method "pencil and paper" and then go spend the rest of your time doing something *fun*? ;)

Re: Savant School: How to Memorize 10,000 Numbers and More

Zaid Rasid — Thu, 06 Sep 2007 11:30:55 -0000

Derren Brown has a book called Tricks of the Mind that includes some cool memory tricks plus some magic tricks as well. But you'll have to order it from the UK Amazon to get a hold of it.

Re: Savant School: How to Memorize 10,000 Numbers and More

Victory Darwin — Thu, 06 Sep 2007 10:44:07 -0000

so 500 foreign vocab words in 12 hours (and all the other amazing stats) what would your error rate be when tested? 85%? and retention period? THANKS DAN for the url... any other good (as in simple/easy) sites to pick this up?

###

Hi Victory,

If followed with a repeat session of about 1 hour on the slower items the following day, I've generally seen an 80-90% retention rate after 24 hours. The forgetting curve is typical Ebbinghaus after that.

For the VA questions, I'd recommend you hit the resources I recommend in 4HWW, especially www.elance.com, but you can also try www.odesk.com, which has good tools. Just post your criteria on each marketplace you choose.

Cheers,

Tim

Re: Savant School: How to Memorize 10,000 Numbers and More

Jacki Hollywood Brown — Thu, 06 Sep 2007 08:50:56 -0000

I'm actually too lazy to memorize a bunch of random stuff. It is easier to remember where to look up the information should I need it....wait, I guess that is a kind of memorization too...hmmm

Re: Savant School: How to Memorize 10,000 Numbers and More

mbm — Thu, 06 Sep 2007 05:55:39 -0000

Hey Tim,

You could be right about the greek origins. Btw, using these techniques to remember speech points is an excellent application of this method. Thanks for mentioning that. I wonder if world leaders use these techniques in their seemingly fluent and long speeches.

regards,
Mohit

Re: Savant School: How to Memorize 10,000 Numbers and More

mbm — Thu, 06 Sep 2007 03:22:27 -0000

As usual an interesting post Tim. The technique you have used seems to have originated from Harry Lorayne's book by the name 'How to have a super power memory' which I remember reading as a kid. This technique you have described is called the Peg technique.

To remember a list of thousands of objects in sequence you can use another technique called the link technique, where you make ridiculous associations between the sequence of objects. Eg: Phone, Book, Comb, Fish...
1. Imagine yourself talking into a huge Book instead of a phone.
2. Imagine yourself studying for an exam reading a massive comb
3. You are fishing at a lake, and you pull out combs instead of fish
and so on...

###

Hi Mo,

This "peg" technique -- often referred to as the "loci" technique -- actually originated in Greece, from what I've read, where Socratic-era orators would use it to remember speech points, as written notes were forbidden. Harry is a smart man, though, to be sure.

Cheers!

Tim

Re: Savant School: How to Memorize 10,000 Numbers and More

Anne — Thu, 06 Sep 2007 00:32:19 -0000

Has anyone else read Daniel Tammet's book, "Born on a Blue Day"? Daniel has a form of autism/Asperger's syndrome, and his book is an interesting taste of how that kind of mind approaches the world. It's odd, but worth reading, especially if anyone you know is somewhere on the autism/Asperger's spectrum.