The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss - Latest Comments in Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts

Re: Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts

Starting Off — Tue, 21 Apr 2009 03:51:40 -0000

Jim,
I've been doing 15-20 min of cardio directly after my lifting for a while with good success (keeping fat in check and feeling good). Usually swimming, recumbent bike, or kettlebell cardio.

S.O.

Re: Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts

Jim Steigerwald — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:52:37 -0000

Tim , could you comment about combining Pavel's routine with some cardio workouts i.e. running, bootcamps, sprints etc. There's gotta be some cardio in your workout routine, right? If nothing else, cardio workouts make you feel great!

Re: Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts

barackoli — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 17:52:23 -0000

i even never thought that pareto principle can be applied for this

brilliant

Re: Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts

Pavel Tsatsouline — Tue, 31 Mar 2009 11:41:56 -0000

Kyle, in the DL and SQ—definitely. In the BP—you never know.

Re: Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts

Kyle — Mon, 30 Mar 2009 19:11:49 -0000

Sounds great. So, would you say that I could expect to continue to make strength gains even when dropping a few pounds of fat, as long as it's done correctly and not in a "crash diet" format?

Re: Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts

Pavel Tsatsouline — Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:01:56 -0000

Kyle, thank you for your kind words!

There are many ways of effectively spread the volume over a week. If neural adaptations are what you are after, doing less more often is better (PTP). If you want hypertrophy, it is better to get smoked less often (5x5, even 10-20x5). If you are not obsessed with either putting on weight or not putting it on, alternating the two works well. Not more frequently than 12 weeks though.

Re: Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts

Kyle — Sun, 29 Mar 2009 14:21:34 -0000

I have to apologize, Pavel. After taking the time to go back and read your previous comment answers, my second question was answered. Still curious about incorporating the PTP plan for hardcore powerlifting training. Thanks again.

Re: Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts

Kyle — Sun, 29 Mar 2009 00:16:26 -0000

Hi Pavel. I've been into weight training for just under two years and have done a lot of experimenting. I was led to your name from a very strong guy and Power To The People worked wonders for me. I went from a max deadlift of 315lbs. to 415lbs. in three months, and due to the frequency of the lifts I learned to truly love the deadlift.

Anyway, I want to say thank you very much and tell you that you are one of the only voices in the iron game that I have come to trust (almost) completely. I always keep a bit of healthy skepticism on hand for practical purposes.

I have two questions about the 80/20 set up:

1) Will the Power To The People system of working only 1 or 2 sets more often work equally to the 5x5? In other words, Mon/Wed/Fri- BP 1x5, SQ 1x5, DL 1x5. It seems like this would be a faster progression and help with the GTG system. Also, since PL meets consist of performing these lifts on the same day wouldn't it help to train that way?

2) What are your thoughts on mixing in some conditioning (15-25 mins) after each lifting sessions. I have decided that powerlifting is the way to go for me, and hope to compete by the end of the year, but I gain fat easily and don't want to sacrifice appearance entirely. Is it necessary to put strength training on hold when it's time to cut the fat? Sorry, slipped a third question in on you.

I apologize for making this so long, but it's a real honor to have direct access to your advice, and I greatly value it. Thanks for your time and all that you've done for us "iron heads". Na zdrovyeh!

Re: Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts

Pavel Tsatsouline — Sat, 28 Mar 2009 14:50:16 -0000

Miro20, I wouldn't. The plan was designed by an experienced lifter and coach and tested on many athletes. Why second guess him?

Re: Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts

Miro20 — Sat, 28 Mar 2009 14:44:14 -0000

Pavel,
then do you think when starting out it makes sense to add a few supplements for secondary muscle groups. While the guys squatting 400 are getting all the groups worked, if you're only lifting 150, would some additional core work be beneficial rather than detrimental?

Re: Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts

Pavel Tsatsouline — Fri, 27 Mar 2009 18:24:23 -0000

Miro20, variety is overrated. The strongest people in the world keep doing the same thing for years—only with heavier weights. Indeed, your body stops responding, but this is where cycling comes in.

Due to the phenomenon of irradiation (explained in my book 'Power to the People!') when the weights are heavy enough all the muscles get worked. Few powerlifters do non-sense like curls, yet they all have huge pipes. Once you work up to 400 in the SQ and DL, your abs will work harder than they ever have in "ab exercises". A calf concession is reasonable. Throw in a set or two after squats. Or, if size is not your goal, just jump rope.

Pull sumo.

Re: Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts

Miro20 — Fri, 27 Mar 2009 16:02:46 -0000

Pavel,
I'm really drawn to the 5x5 routine because of its simplicity and efficiency. There are just a few things I would appreciate you clearing up:

The first is the lack of variety that was addressed in the article. If you are doing the same 3 exercises each workout, then doesn't your body adapt to that range of motion so that over time your results won't be as significant? That's the general reason, I think, why people stress variety in exercises.

Also, if you depend on those 3 exercises for training secondary muscles, then won't you're pecs, triceps, hamstrings and lower back develop disproportionately to your calves, biceps, abbs?

This last point is more particular to me. I'm a tall guy (6, 5) and struggle with dead lift. Is there an easier variation I could use to work up to a regular dead lift?

Any thoughts you have I'd greatly appreciate.
Thanks

Re: Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts

Pavel Tsatsouline — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 11:59:07 -0000

From JohnM:

"I am 5?10, weigh roughly 140lbs, I have never had a consistent workout schedule. The max I’ve benched for 5 reps comfortably was 135lbs, deads were 165lbs a year ago.Currently, I wait 5 mins between sets. 125lbs on Bench, 135 on Squat and 145lbs on Deads. I hadn’t squatted prior to starting this program. I have been gaining some muscle and losing some fat, but I would really like to see better strength gains. I am tempted to switch to the PTP workout, but I think I would like to see some mass gains."

John, you just need to get more aggressive. Put your mind to it.

Re: Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts

JohnM — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 20:18:53 -0000

Pavel,
Again, thanks a lot for taking time to answer questions. I am 5'10, weigh roughly 140lbs, I have never had a consistent workout schedule. The max I've benched for 5 reps comfortably was 135lbs, deads were 165lbs a year ago.
Currently, I wait 5 mins between sets.
125lbs on Bench, 135 on Squat and 145lbs on Deads. I hadn't squatted prior to starting this program. I have been gaining some muscle and losing some fat, but I would really like to see better strength gains. I am tempted to switch to the PTP workout, but I think I would like to see some mass gains.

Re: Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts

Pavel Tsatsouline — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 18:12:20 -0000

John, how long are you resting between sets? What are the weights you are using and what is your training background?

Re: Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts

JohnM — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 21:34:57 -0000

Comrade Pavel,
I can't believe you still take time to reply to posts here. Thanks!
I am having a short of a sticking point early in the program. I started several weeks ago and although I haven't been able to life exactly on the schedule, I haven't missed many workouts. However, unlike people who have been posting here, I seem to be stuck at a particular weight about 20 pounds above where I started(I started pretty conservatively). Every week, I can make the first set and the second set starts getting really tough and it's down-hill from there on. However, I have been seeing some muscle mass gain and some fat loss, so I am sticking with it. I don't understand what is going on. Am I supposed to cycle back to a lower weight so quickly?

Re: Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts

Pavel Tsatsouline — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 12:14:30 -0000

Thank you for your kind words, Philip!

Re: Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts

Philip A. — Sun, 22 Mar 2009 22:21:55 -0000

?????? ?????,
??????? ??????? ??? ????? ???????? ????? ???????. ???? ??? ??? ???? ?????. ????????? ? ????? ?????.

Hi Pavel,
Big respect for your work and Im very happy to find you here, thank you and wish you all the best.

Thanks to your books and articles i got introduced to kettlebells and right now i feel that i cant live without them. When i was child we had 16kg giria in Russia but i was too small to even think about using it. Im very happy and love them even though my wrists have dark red spots from constant hits of kb but its OK i like it.
I discovered similar program from powerlifting.ru 2 weeks ago and was on it since then. But I trying to use kettlebells between gym days. Doing swings and snatches.
Just wanted to share this.

Re: Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts

Starting Off — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 18:53:58 -0000

Pavel,
I'll follow your prescription and let you know how it turns out. I'm actually looking forward to it - not to the break mind you, but to coming back to lifting and enjoying it more again :). I remember feeling great for most of the lifting time except the very end, with higher energy levels and a general feeling of power at all times :).

Thanks 1,000,000!!!! :)

S.O.

Re: Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts

Pavel Tsatsouline — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:53:07 -0000

Starting Off, a week off would not hurt. On next cycle back off to 185 in the SQ, 145 in the BP, and 225 in the DL. Eventually you will know how far to start in each lift to peak them all at once.

Re: Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts

Starting Off — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 13:37:49 -0000

Pavel,
Thanks again for your advice and support! Doing some reading on my own lead me to believe I should take a week off from lifting, but recycling sounds like a better way to recover and work past the tough spots. I may also space my 5 sets throughout the day since my gym is across the street from my office (I'm lucky :)). Should recycling be done with all lifts at the same time or just the lift that's getting overwhelming? Would a good drop be 20 lbs?

Thanks, Pavel!!!

S.O.

Re: Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts

Pavel Tsatsouline — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 12:03:11 -0000

From Starting Off:

"1: How long is too long to wait between sets?"

As long as you want. My "Grease the Groove" plan from 'The Naked Warrior' calls for sets throughout the day. For practical reasons 5-10min.

"2: Lifts are getting noticably more draining and less enjoyable - is this normal or does it mean something?"

It means you are getting stronger and digging deeper. When you barely make your sets, go back to lighter weights ('recycle') and build up again.

Hold the course, Starting Off, you are doing very well.

Re: Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts

Starting Off — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 04:47:45 -0000

Pavel,
I can't say thanks enough for your great article and generous attention you've been giving to this blog for MONTHS! I've already enjoyed a few of your products as well, and recommend them to anyone and everyone. I've been on the program for almost three months now, and have added around 100 lbs to each of my lifts as well as gaining significant muscle mass and definition (note that I'm somewhat of a beginner to strength training, but not sports, cardio training, or good ol' hard work). I'm very happy with the results, and I haven't even maxxed out yet!

A couple questions have been on my mind lately:

1: How long is too long to wait between sets?

The article states, "Top power dogs take longer; 30 min. is not unheard of." I have noticed that sometimes I need more than 5 minutes to feel ready to go on to the next set. if 30 minutes is not unheard of, as stated in the article, what is the maximum wait time allowed before it becomes too long and interferes with the training plan? (i.e. waiting 18 hours would be way too long, but what about one or two hours? What about 4 or 5 hours, breaking up the sets between lunchtime and after work?).

2: Lifts are getting noticably more draining and less enjoyable - is this normal or does it mean something?

The lifts are getting harder and less comfortable as I advance in weight. The last two deadlifts were hard to get the nerve up to actually lift - I felt like I didn't have the energy or will to do it even though I got all 5 sets both times (I know it sounds stupid, but when this 'feeling' becomes stronger than the will to continue the program it could be a problem). I'm not suffereing from any specific pain or ache (actually other than expected muscle fatigue I've felt great), but the lifts have just become less enjoyable and feel more like 'work.' I'm not trying to complain, but I feel that this may be my body's way of telling me something important - which is the reason I'm bringing it up. Any thoughts? - Below are my 5x5 numbers since they may pertain to this issue. Also, in case it may bear on a solution: For 1.5 weeks I've been doing the 'Enter the Kettlebell' program minimum in addition to lifting, but the issue in question has been gradually increasing for the last 4-5 weeks or so.

Beginning Numbers (Week of December 25, 2008):

Bodyweight/Height: 200 lbs/5'11"
Squat: 125 lbs
Bench: 95 lbs
DL: 165

Current Numbers (Just got all 5 sets in each lift, Week of March 12, 2009):

Bodyweight/Height: 214 lbs/5'11"
Squat: 235
Bench: 175
DL: 285

Thanks again for all of your help!!

Sincerely,
S.O.

Re: Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts

Brian — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 01:10:44 -0000

Thanks Pavel!

Re: Pavel: 80/20 Powerlifting and How to Add 110+ Pounds to Your Lifts

Pavel Tsatsouline — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:26:27 -0000

From Brian:

"I know that techniques like supramaximal holds can increase strength. Would there be room for such techniques in this program? Also, could one make further gains by integrating twice a day training? Thank you!"

Brian, there is no room for twice a day training on this plan. You could do some overloads, e.g. walking out a 120% SQ, when you are peaking with 3x3 or 2x2.

Don't overcomplicate.