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I´ll be testing these insights in my muscle lab!
It makes total sense to me that he could apply this principle to powerlifting so effectively. I was able to use the 80/20 principle for both the creation of my muse and in applying the same principle to P90x (my current experiment). Great article.
Also, Horacio Goday at La Viruta in Buenos Aires says hello. It was a fantastic Tango Lesson (and great mini retirement)! He wound up doing the opening of the BsAs video that we shot at La Viruta. Lots of fun had by all.
Merry Xmas,
Rob
Jet Set Life
I love it when two of my favourite authors make a venture :)
Tim Ferris and Pavel Tatsouline. So glad to see them together.
Its a nice and good surprise.
Interesting post. Curious what Pavel thinks about replacing Dead lifts with "Cleans" ("Clean and Jerk" - essentially dead lift + overhead press). Also is this exercise routine recommended for "surfers" / swimmers. People who want to remain flexible, thin, but have power.
More on "Cleans"
http://bodybuilding.about.com/od/olympicweightl...
THanks
Robert
I've been into them for years, and my website was inspired by reading FHWW... so, two of my favorites really have come together!
I only can say that this may not be for everyone. It's great for PLer's who only compete in these exercises, but that is a very limited population. I know many clients of mine who are PLer's and cannot do a single chin up. Pavel mentioned that lats are used in the bench press, however, it is only used in a limited range of motion, not the best training method for trying to pull-up your own weight.
I think that a variety of full-body exercises should be employed, not just the PLers core 3. Pull-ups, rows, and overhead movements are 3 exercises I would include to achieve full-body strength. But I have to say, I agree with Pavel, throw out the leg extensions and bicep curls. You will never see me throw a client on a machine like that. Great application of 80/20.
Stay tuned when I use the approach of 80/20 and take my first mini-retirement to Greece and run my first marathon, the Classic Marathon from Marathon to Athens on an extremely low mileage training plan, inspired by Pareto.
Your Digital Trainer,
Jeremiah
Google: Super Slow Exercise Protocol
Regards,
Brian
Everyone needs to do some weight training for overall health and performance. Powerlifting gets a bad wrap, but the principles are sound. Nothing more basic than picking up weight. I do think most folks would benefit more from a standing press than a bench press.
For more brutally simple and effective workouts check out Dan John.
http://danjohn.org/
Dan knows his stuff and isn't afraid to put himself to the test to prove it.
Got anything more efficient, Tim?
Very interesting article. I'm currently doing 2 days a week for lifting (upper body one day, lower body the other day), 8 exercises per workout, 8-12 reps (1 set) to failure as per one of your previous blog posts. This seems to be working pretty well. My fiancée and I have seen the best results in the gym using this routine than anything else we've tried, but we're always looking to improve.
What are your thoughts in comparing our current routine to this 5x5, never to failure, routine of 3 key exercises?
Thanks a lot,
Robert
As a Titleist Performance Institute Instructor, this sort of stuff is right in my wheel house. I think it very important that before anyone does these types of workouts, they need to be physically screened to determine if their body has the stability/mobility to perform correct squats, dead lifts, etc.
For example, we would never start anyone with a dead lift until they can prove they can handle a bridge with leg extension. Dead lifts require proper glute function. Another example would be the squat...we would make sure that they can perform a deep squat, heels on the ground, and their butt past their knees before adding weight.
If they don't pass our screens we put them through a progression of corrections with the goal of performing a dead lift, squat etc.
Just a few comments, for those interested in a similar and more detailed approach to the "80/20" approach to working out you should look into getting Rippetoe's starting strength. It’s a great book that places major emphasis on all compound lifts and the importance of proper biomechanics etc.
As for the article above I've studied and am still studying the how much muscle recruitment you get from compounds lifts. To say that you gain as much muscle from doing compound lifts alone is not an accurate statement.
You do in fact gain if you use compound lifts because you are recruiting a large amount of muscle fibres which require your body to use more motor units to contract them but you would gain more muscle if you put time into individual’s muscles.
It really comes down to what results you want. Power lifters focus on being able to recruit large amounts of fast twitch fibres in order to lift large amounts of weight. The way they grow and look is much different from a bodybuilder or anyone who focuses on hypertrophy.
With hypertrophy, in a nutshell you are constantly aiming to destroy and rebuild your muscle fibers. Which is why mixing in compound and isolation would be ideal.
Sorry for babbling I'll try to address this on my website another day. I guess what I'm trying to say is if you want to build maximal strength Power lift. If you want hypertrophy find a program that incorporates the important core compound lifts but you'll need addition isolation work too
Brian
Follows your philosophy of do less but gain more.
That's what I'm talking about -- 80/20 -- less is more, it's a key component of my DoubleYourGains' 3-5 program.
The more you specialize the greater progress you make, and why spend time doing wrist curls when you could be deadlifting a bar bending load and getting better forearm work?
Love it!
Caleb
Robert, I would not replace DLs with C&Js. The Olympic lifts require different loading patterns. www.danjohn.org/coach has an excellent free e-book on the subject.
Ryan, well put. Comrades, www.functionalmovements.com is the place.
Your book was the first time I had the 80/20 rule put in proper context for me. Everyone always referred to it but I was too embarrassed to ask for a full explanation. I am not sure most people that cite it, truly grasp it. Asking the question, where else can I apply this rule has become addicting!
As an avid gym rat I am going to try the above. However, I am also scheduled to start one on one lessons with a UFC fighter and wondered if you think this workout would should be modified for aspiring fighters.
Yusuf
Great job on the article. I agree and have experienced many of the points Pavel made in the post. I had a 14 year football career with a power mentality (it was taught to us by our strength coaches) to become a better football player. Then transitioned into a drug free for life professional body building career in the WNBF for the last 13 years. I have competed alongside of some of the best truly drug free bodybuilders in the world. Dave Gooden, Francis Gay, Jim Cordova etc.
Also, for the last 8 years I have had the luxury of being arguable one of the busiest fitness trainers / healthy lifestyle coaches in the world with over 18,000 sessions with clients.
At this point of my career and at the age of 43 I have learned that it is never one thing or one mindset that gets results. It is always a combination to proven strategies that works best. With that being said I believe for the avergage person, with average goals that a program with some powerlifing moves, with some body building moves, some athletic functional plyometric moves, and stretching is the best approach.
In my trademarked FatLoss Lifestyle 12 Week body transformation program we use a wide variety of techniques. But for the base philosophy we try to make light weights feel heavy by going slow (a 3.1.3 rep tempo) and isometrically squeezing target muscles.
I can't tell you how many of my high school and college buddies who kept up with the "How Much Ya Bench" power-lifting mentality for 10 years or so ended up with hip and shoulder replacement surgery. I would disagree with Pavel that there is a difference between muscle strength and hypertrophy (bigger). Usually a powerlifting mindset and strategy is going to put more stress on the tendons and bones and joints and the 3-1-3 rep tempo (put the mind in the muscle and squeeze) mentality is going to put the stress in the muscle.
On average bodybuilders who are going to have bigger muscles than powerlifters. Also, when trying to design a personal program we have to consider amount of time being spent on working out.
But, (not to blow smoke at you) if there is anyone on the face of this earth that can figure out how to create the best, most time efficient program that produces desired results, it is you Tim. And I know you are on a mission with this. Please let me know if there is anyway I can help you out. thanks for the backward link.
Darin (from the windy city)
You can Google it to see the website. It uses an add 5 lbs. each workout as opposed to the 10 in this article, however, the weight adds up quick.
Anyone interested in core strengthening (not body building which is more for looks) should give it a look. It has a very detailed routine for a full body workout each time.
-Spencer
I am a HUGE fan of the methods that came from the 1970' and prior to. These men were built with a rugged / athletic physique, I would say almost like 2nd rate Gymnasts.
I am more and more using the 80/20 rule to EVERYTHING I do as well, business and strength work.
I have a buddy who does this as well, and man is he putting on muscle and strength like never before.
He recently got into powerlifting / strongman and trains 4 x week.
He performs the military press, squat & deadlift and then has an event day w/strongman implements. He's a BEAST!
You can't go wrong with the squat and deadlift, I prefer to use the floor press slightly more often than the bench press, just to save my shoulders.
Many of the strongest men in the world followed the same advice of Pavel: they did the following on a regular basis:
- squats
- deadlift
- military press (barbell or dumbbell)
- power clean / hang clean / clean & press (barbell + dumbbell)
They also used some athletic gymnastics type movements such as hand balancing drills
The results were far beyond what I see coming through any of the typical gyms
This was an awesome post, thanks brother and thanks to Pavel!
Kill it Beast!
--Z--
Great to see Pavel contributing an article to this blog! It is a great surprise to see.
I'll have to slightly disagree about being unable to diagnose and correct imbalances on your own. Yes, hiring a professional with decades of experience certainly will expedite the process, but there's still plenty you can learn on your own. I'm sitting here with a copy of Gray Cook's "Athletic Body in Balance" on my bookshelf, and I read T-nation and other such websites and references on a fairly regular basis. While I'm no renowned expert on the topic of imbalances, I've learned a tremendous amount over the past several years. I enjoy the learning process too.
I guess my whole point is, there's nothing wrong with trying to learn and DIY when you start. Grab a professional when you really need them.
"OK, I’m a girl, so maybe I just don’t “get it,” but 5 1hr workouts a week - just for strength training, mind you - doesn’t seem very efficient to me. Add in a reasonable amount of cardio, like 3 20 minute interval sessions each week, and you’re up to at least 6 hours of gym time, plus the travel/changing/showering time per week. Got anything more efficient, Tim?"
Maria, you are right, this plan is efficient only for someone who makes strength the #1 priority. May I suggest a very low volume "easy strength" plan where you do a couple of global exercises for the reps totalling 10 in low rep sets (e.g. 5-5, 5-3-2, 3-3-4, 4-3-2-1, etc.) 2-3 times a week? This type of a program builds strength without building mass and leaves you plenty of time and energy for sports. Please refer to my book "Power to the People!" for details.
"I only can say that this may not be for everyone. It’s great for PLer’s who only compete in these exercises, but that is a very limited population. I know many clients of mine who are PLer’s and cannot do a single chin up. Pavel mentioned that lats are used in the bench press, however, it is only used in a limited range of motion, not the best training method for trying to pull-up your own weight."
Jeremiah, true, but this applies only to bigger, fatter guys. According to the statistics by Belskiy (2000) middleweight and light heavyweight powerlifters were good for 22.5 pullups. I am sure Inzer and Kutcher could do even better.
Thanks for the great comments. A few things:
1) The key here is -- in my opinion -- progression with one major exercise per session. If you cannot perform squat or bench press (though I've done so solo using a well-set power rack) -- and let's even suppose you can't do the conventional deadlift -- you would still get outstanding results using overhead press, trap bar deadlift, and bent rows, for example.
People will disagree on best exercises, but my two criteria are simple: 1) safe for you to perform and 2) large compound exercises.
2) Comparing training to failure (HIT/SuperSlow/etc.) with 5 x 5, single set to failure will consume much less time. However, keep in mind that Pavel's objective is maximal strength, and his 80/20 is applied to exercise selection, not time.
Failure can be used most effectively for gaining mass and not for maximal strength development. Pavel's suggested workout takes time because of rest intervals and stops short of failure, which is ideal for many athletes who cannot afford the neural fatigue of training to failure within their sport training.
3) Regarding kettlebells, more coming on that separately. Keep an eye on www.twitter.com/tferriss for my ongoing experiments with them.
Hope that all helps!
All the best,
Tim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ubc4uJdyB8
If you're doing squats and dead lifts girls, you don't need 2 hours of aerobics every week, unless your preparing for a specific endurance sport. Abs are made in the kitchen, strength is made in the gym.
“I wonder… Since neither squats nor bench presses are safe to perform without a spotter: Could you switch the bench press for dumbell bench presses? And is there a safer version of the squats that is OK to do on your own?”
Chris, the dumbbell press will not cut it. You can bench safely inside a power rack with the safety pins set just beneath your chest level. If you miss a rep, just sink the chest slightly. Ideally, you should never miss a rep though.
I believe that the Zercher squat is even better than the back squat and you
can easily dump the bar. Here is a link to an excellent Zercher squat video, 505 pounds lifted by powerlifter Jason Burnell:
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/VidClips/5...
Tim, saw that you're interested in the kettlebells, personally I've found Josh Hillis' blogg very interesting, if you don't know about him already you might want to check it out. Ok, know that this is a quite girly thing to say but, well I like to have muscles but I don't want to look like Schwarzenegger, so he has some ideas for that as well..
and, for the rest of you: just found tenminutesforchristmas.com, some cool guys (Leo Babauta from Zenhabits and more) on sale.. might try to buy on of them to my bf for christmas, at least one easy way to reach the untouchables, yeay! well what won't one do for charity?;)
merry christmas all of you!
Lollo
You also forget to mention how to avoid looking like Johnnie Jackson. I don't want to look like a bodybuilder as he does.
"I have tendonitis in my hands, leaving me with weak grip strength and plenty of pain if I lift anything heavy. I probably can’t even lift a fully loaded barbell. Is there an alternative to the deadlift? You also forget to mention how to avoid looking like Johnnie Jackson. I don’t want to look like a bodybuilder as he does."
Use straps for now and get your tendonitis treated so you can pull without them eventually. It takes a lot of eating in addition to lifting to look like a bodybuilder. To get huge you need to eat so much that you start hating food. Simply don't do it!
I thought the answer to adding 110+lbs was going to be RedBull, but I like this answer better.
I'm surprised by the "never train to failure" point. Many moons back I worked out with folks doing a Bulgarian workout (which I can't seem to find now), but every set was to "beyond failure" -- meaning you needed a partner for every single set. We got a lot weaker the first couple weeks, but then the gains were incredible, and I've never found a routine that beat it in terms of efficiency and effectiveness (simple approach - short routines, push past failure, grow )
"Interesting read. Static stretching, however beneficial for general mobility and recovery, does not increase strength and has been shown in studies to decrease strength by significant amounts (more than 10% for sure). That part jumped out to me."
Mike, it depends on the protocol. Efimov, 1977 documented instant strength gains of up to 9.4% and long-term strength gains as well with special static stretching ("Loaded Stretching").
"I am interested, whether the system as described helps with endurance as well I know a strong muscle will fatigue less but straight weight training for strength I don’t believe will help an endurance athlete. As was pointed out in a earlier comment, if you are training for cardio is well, it ends up being quite a long time spent training."
Watzzupsport, there are different types of endurance. PL training will not help with marathon but will help with moving furniture all day.
Pavel - thank you for writing it, comrade. And good link to Dan John's stuff.
80/20 rule is excellent. That's how we do CrossFit at our place - minimalistic and simplistic without delving into too much variety of funky stuff, emphasizing the basics.
And I'm pleasantly surprised to see so many names I've seen before on this blog out of all places - Jim B, Boris B, Pavel, Zach E.
Very cool indeed!
Leo S.
"...the dumbbell press will not cut it. You can bench safely inside a power rack with the safety pins set just beneath your chest level..."
I'm curious as to why dumbbell press can't substitute for a regular barbell bench press. I would think that you could get a fuller range of motion with dumbbells and get a better workout from having to stabilize two independent weights.
Tim + Pavel, thanks for posting the article. I found it to be a good read with useful info.
- Slacker
Along with the 5x5 principle I also love the simplicity of an EDT style of volume training...just doing as many reps of 2 major exercises for 15min...all compound movements...superseting and never going to 100% failure (keeping the weight so you are doing anywhere from 5-8 reps per set). Then up the weights next time.
Keeping it simple....life heavy, eat to recover, sleep, progress workouts....and results follow. Wish someone told me all this when I was in high school doing all the stupid stuff like curls in a squat rack.
"Interesting, but I can’t imagine as a newbie coming into a gym and doing my own thing like this without being browbeaten by the instructor or regulars…"
Nestor, find a powerlifter in your area (you may need to go online as there are not many out there) and hire him for a few sessions. PLers are great people, very helpful and humble, as all truly strong people are. Those who give you grief are wannabes.
So that's Squat & Deadlft belt or no belt ?
Thanks and great article :)
I attended a CSCS (certified strength and conditioning specialist) workshop in Irvine CA in April of this year with a friend.
Pavel is sitting behind us.
My friend, not familiar with Pavel, turns to me and says, "I want to look like THAT guy. He looks lean, powerful, and fit".
I look back and see that he wants to look like the foremost authority on Kettlebell training in the world.
I wished him good luck - and let him know he has HIGH standards!
-Curtis :)
Great article
I have a question though, i am a student looking to lose some weight and tone up, i go to the gym regularly (over a year on and off) and practise (though a little less now) martial arts. My question is, is there anyway to follow this exercise regime without the competing part? I am not a weightlifter and would not really like to compete i just want to get fit and healthy.
Cheers for any help/advice you can give
You rock!
Salim
1) Quick and dramatic increase in overall strength.
2) Better posture and alignment.
3) Increase in jumping ability.
4) Improved flexibility.
5) Better endurance.
6) Improved balance.
7) More resistant to injury.
8) Slight shrinkage of the waist.
9) A few pounds gained on the scale.
10) Extreme hardening of the entire body.
11) Noticeable increase in full body muscle definition.
12) Improvement in confidence and general attitude.
13) Substantial improvement as dancers.
My students also used the second program outlined in PTP which is only deadlifts and side press. Results held steady, only an additional improvement in upper body and grip strength was noted. I later put together some other programs that very much resemble Faleev's, adding bench-press or squats or even push-press, but never anything beyond those few lifts, always heavy and reps 5 or less. The dancers became ever more fit and capable. In order to avoid gaining muscle size we simply kept rest periods between sets over 2 minutes.
These are students I trained every week for several years and there was never any evidence of the much feared, and often spoken of, imbalance in appearance, strength or any other athletic ability. I still see these students occasionally after eight years, and the results of this type of training still hold. The dancers really loved these sessions, they had a reputation at our gym as superwomen and they used to brag about being powerlifters.
If you are concerned about correct exercise form or about a possible barrage of nonsense from gym "experts," hire a powerlifter to train you as Pavel suggests, or buy his book or DVD, Power to the People.
Correct stretching only makes a person weak for a few hours after the stretching session. In the long run the athlete is made stronger and more capable. The key here is the stretching must be correctly executed and applied. I recommend Pavel's Relax into Stretch book and DVD.
Awesome article and great comments BTW. - E
I can definitely see the similarity in your and Tim's philosophies.
Well spoken and insightful as always.
Thanks for connecting me with the strongman in North Dakota. I've been checking out his site and it's impressive.
"The height of cultivation runs to simplicity. Halfway cultivation runs to ornamentation." - Bruce Lee
Tim,
It says a lot in that when it comes to areas of your life as diverse as economics and strength training you choose to seek knowledge only from the most respected experts in the world like Warren Buffett and Pavel, respectively.
As someone told me recently, "The closer to the fountain, the more pure the water."
As a fellow BJJ practitioner i wouldn't mind hearing more about your training with Dave Camarillo, if you ever feel like writing about that.
Anton
"Seems like normal people could benefit from this idea too. Maybe not even 3 exercises, how about a combo? Deadlift sort of is like a squat, so you could do a deadlift with a press at the end, then just do 1 exercise! 80/20 the 80/20, that’s like 64/4 (64% results 4% effort)."
Slacker, read my book "Power to the People!" (Tim has provided a link on the bottom of the article). It does exactly that.
"Is there a good reason not to sub the standing barbell press instead of the bench press. I ask because I’m worried about my long term shoulder health with using the bench press as the sole pressing movement. Competition in the bench press event is not imporant to me."
I prefer the overhead press myself but it does not go up on low volume like 5x5 for long. When the press was a part of the Olympic weightlifting competition Russian lifters had a saying, "To press a lot you must press a lot." You will find a high volume press regimen in my book "Enter the Kettlebell!" (www.enterthekettlebell.com); the press program can be applied to barbells or dumbells as well.
You can BP safely if your technique is right. The "corkscrew" technique and using the lats properly protects the shoulders.
"I have a question though, i am a student looking to lose some weight and tone up, i go to the gym regularly (over a year on and off) and practise (though a little less now) martial arts. My question is, is there anyway to follow this exercise regime without the competing part? I am not a weightlifter and would not really like to compete i just want to get fit and healthy."
Salim, it has been said that without a goal it is not training but "working out". At least schedule an informal competition in the gym with your buddies.
"I’m curious as to why dumbbell press can’t substitute for a regular barbell bench press. I would think that you could get a fuller range of motion with dumbbells and get a better workout from having to stabilize two independent weights."
Johnny, the dumbell press is a fine drill but when you want to get more done with less you must choose only the exercises which allow you to use the most weight. This "irradiates" tension to other muscles and ups the systemic stress needed to stimulate muscle growth through elevated testosterone, etc.
"After reading this, I am extremely excited to go the gym. But what training advice would you offer to pitchers or quarterbacks who rely on shoulder strength in addition to this program? Thanks"
Peter, this is not a program for an athlete who simultaneously pursues another sport. After 5x5 of squats you will not be running too well. An athlete needs an "easy strength" lower volume plan such as the first workout in my bok "Power to the People!"
I'm also curious about the advocation of not using 1-2 lb increments. Granted in the beginning you can very rapidly ramp up using 5-10 lb increments, it is very difficult to add even 5 lbs once you get close to your max weights for a given workout routine. After hitting the threshold of 5 lbs being too large of an increment, I have used so called "fractional weight plates" when close to my maxes to keep adding weight to the bar every week without losing reps. Perhaps it's a bit nit picky, but I'm curious if there are any compelling reasons to go one route or the other beyond preference.
"I used to follow a similar “bare basics” routine out of Stewart McRobert’s Hardgainer material. It espoused an even more infrequent workout schedule of 2 workouts a week or 2 every ten days even. It also used fewer sets, often only two or even one set per exercise per workout. I’m curious what you think about doing fewer sets with heavier weight. I am a particularly hard gainer myself so I know that even at only 5 reps, I would be sacrificing enormous quantities of weight in order to stretch it out over 5 sets.
I’m also curious about the advocation of not using 1-2 lb increments. Granted in the beginning you can very rapidly ramp up using 5-10 lb increments, it is very difficult to add even 5 lbs once you get close to your max weights for a given workout routine. After hitting the threshold of 5 lbs being too large of an increment, I have used so called “fractional weight plates” when close to my maxes to keep adding weight to the bar every week without losing reps. Perhaps it’s a bit nit picky, but I’m curious if there are any compelling reasons to go one route or the other beyond preference."
Brian, many top US powerlifters like Karwoski and Coan have used 1-2 sets successfully. If it works for you -do it. Just don't justify it with being a "hardgainer"; not a helpful mindset.
Small weight jumps are good for beginners, than things start breaking down. You end up spending too many workouts near your RM and you only have so many before you crash and drop off the peak. And you end up spinning your wheels too long in the beginning of the cycle. 2-5% 1RM jumps are optimal. If you want to learn more, read the "Very Progressive Overload" article in my Power to the People Monthly (www.PowertothePeopleMonthly.com).
But for someone like me who wants very high endurance for surfing and the much more lean/cut look, its not very suitable long term. Plus a good mix of cardio and weight lifting is supposed to be much better for you health wise.
"Sounds like a great workout for those who hit a plateau in their strength or really want to pursue power lifting. But for someone like me who wants very high endurance for surfing and the much more lean/cut look, its not very suitable long term. Plus a good mix of cardio and weight lifting is supposed to be much better for you health wise."
Erick, for you a kettlebell workout will be perfect. www.enterthekettlebell.com
That's quite an achievement :)
Thanks for sharing this tips.
Might come in handy if I plan to gain weight and build some muscle!
Pura Vida
Jose Castro Frenzel
More is not better, more is simply more. A heavy deadlift or squat will literally spark your whole body (hormones, by the way, are best described, I was told, as "cascades," like fireworks) into transforming. Doing 10,000 ab crunches will probably lead you to back issues and do little for the pot belly...but deadlifts and squats and presses, especially in a lower carb environment, will do more than hours and hours of fasting and aerboics...long term.
My only concern is tweaking the program for my special circumstances. I am just 3 months out from meniscus surgery. only 20 % removed from the inside of my right leg. I'll put about 80% of my max for the nxt three to four months and see the results.
I cant say enough the feeling these exercises give me writing this posting. I look forward to the next few months and anticipte what can happen.
Question to Pavel: Amazon says you cited the Warrior Diet in your Power to the People Book. What eating book would you recommend to a guy over 40 looking to stay trim and slim?
Once again think you to Tim and Pavel. These posts keep changing my life.
"I have just come back from scouting the gym. There I found machines and spaces required to perform Pavel Tsatsouline’s program. I did only one quick rep for each of the three exercises. Then came home. It has been almost 2 hours but I feel Incredible. The workout as briefly as it was proved amazing. My only concern is tweaking the program for my special circumstances. I am just 3 months out from meniscus surgery. only 20 % removed from the inside of my right leg. I’ll put about 80% of my max for the nxt three to four months and see the results. I cant say enough the feeling these exercises give me writing this posting. I look forward to the next few months and anticipte what can happen.Question to Pavel: Amazon says you cited the Warrior Diet in your Power to the People Book. What eating book would you recommend to a guy over 40 looking to stay trim and slim?"
Leonard, ask your doctor about box squats; they are very easy on the knees. Learn the technique from westside-barbell.com. I have been on the Warrior Diet for 4 years or so and I love it. But I am not a nutrition expert.
Once again think you to Tim and Pavel. These posts keep changing my life.
I recovered best through lots of sled drags and box squats - these felt great. I also used bands for seated leg curls which can be performed during your warm up.
Just some friendly advice, please remember, I am no Doctor and am not telling you what to do, but, these 3 movements help speed recovery VERY quickly!
--Z--
http://www.precisiontraining.com/articles.html.
My system is different now but it started with Sisco.
Here was my pre-plan to find a program that would work for me:
-need metrics to measure exactly what is going on to gauge process
1)Body fat percentage
2) Strength gains
3) photos and measurements
4) Time spent in the gym
I was very clear and truthful with myself about what I wanted and only worked to that end.
I use a spreadsheet that tracks my numbers. I spend 46 min in the gym every 5 weeks now. If I do anymore strength work than that I start seeing signs of strength loss or plateau.
I have picked up doing some "fun cardio" and yoga daily now but that is for a different goal (mind and health).
No matter what you do you have to be VERY clear about what you want and then ask "how can I measure this."
Numbers tell a story.
I bought "Power to the People (PTTP)" over 6 years ago after years of "3 sets of 8" nonsense and getting mediocre results from the traditional bodybuilding type workouts. Using PTTP,my deadlift shot up from 275 pounds to 455 in a little over six months. My bench press went from 315 to 355. Using the "Russian Bear" protocol in PTTP I dropped 25 lbs while going from an XL to an XXL shirt.
The results from "Power to the People" convinced me to buy a kettlebell. I now own ten of them. If they didn't work I'd still only own one.
I have invested, yes INVESTED, at least a couple thousand dollars in Pavel's books, DVDs, and Kettlebells. I ain't done yet, either!
I'm now 45 years old, 6' and 225 lbs. On 12 Dec, ten days ago, I deadlifted 555 lbs. It went up fairly easily. I'm in the Military, I can't afford to be weak. Pavel's methods have ALWAYS delivered. I'm not only stronger, but also healthier, more flexible, and TONS more confident!!
Check out his Publisher's website: http://www.dragondoor.com It'll change you for the better.
Power to you!!
"A couple of questions from a swimming girl: would strong and big muscles gained by this be of any help in a 100 freestyle race? I need fast contraction, complex coordination and good shoulder and ankle mobility for a 1 minute race. Any suggestions how to accomplish that without spending 6 hours a week in gym? You see, there are of course a couple of kilometers to swim, too. Thanks"
Aspirinha, this is not appropriate training for a swimmer. Please consult with Kenneth Jay who is the strength coach for the Danish Olympic swimming team. His e-mail is kettlebells.dk@gmail.com
"Can you do different variations of the lifts, say cycle deadlifts off plates, perhaps box squats, perhaps medium grip bench presses so that there is some slight variation and the ability to work on weak areas but the exercise is pretty much the same and you still get bang for your buck."
Mike, yes but you should stay with the same variation for 6 weeks.
"Pavel, what a great article! What are some of your ideas on how to apply 80/20 to cardio training whether that be anaerobic or aerobic endurance?"
Alex, as you would expect, I am partial towards kettlebells.
There are two books that you should read by Pavel, and one by Mark Rippetoe. First is Power to the People, which is a good book on basic strength training, it includes a program which works and is very abbreviated (~20 minutes per workout 2-5 times a week), and will not make you gain any weight size (particularly since you probably have a hard time gaining weight from swimming training). Second is Relax Into Stretch, which will show you just about everything you'll ever need to know about flexibility. Finally, Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe and Lon Kilgore. This book is invaluable for it's teaching of the proper Back Squat, Bench Press, Press, Deadlift and Power Clean.
Of course being stronger will increase your swimming speeds, just as being stronger would help a short/middle distance runner! Maximal strength training increases your inter- and intra- muscular coordination and force production abilities.
Power to you!
"Is it correct to say that this exercise regime and kettlebells are mutually exclusive?"
Bob, not so but the KB regimen should not be too demanding. Just light snatches or swings for conditioning and get-ups for shoulder health. Like the "Enter the Kettlebell!" Program Minimum.
First, how would you recommend to adopt this routine in the case of 1 or 2 training sessions per week? And would it cause a large decrease in efficiency or not?
Second. What's the point of "light" exercises? From everything I heard before you should usually give the muscle the maximum possible load, but after that give maximum possible conditions to rest and recover, including time and the absence of the stress between the training sessions. So are they really required and so effective? If yes, then why? And how "light" should these light exercises should be, how do I calculate the weights? And do I do them if my muscles are still sick from the last training?
And the final, third question. Is it ok and is it a good idea to add chin-ups before DL (my priority is wide back), add press-ups on bars after BP (for better load of chest and triceps) and add biceps curls after SQ (to give some stress to arms as well). I know that supposedly basic exercises will give enough load to your arms as well, but still I'm afraid it's not enough and once a week or even once 1.5 week it wouldn't be a bad idea to train my biceps as well.
So what do you think? Thank you very much in advance!
"First, how would you recommend to adopt this routine in the case of 1 or 2 training sessions per week? And would it cause a large decrease in efficiency or not? Second. What’s the point of “light” exercises? From everything I heard before you should usually give the muscle the maximum possible load, but after that give maximum possible conditions to rest and recover, including time and the absence of the stress between the training sessions. So are they really required and so effective? If yes, then why? And how “light” should these light exercises should be, how do I calculate the weights? And do I do them if my muscles are still sick from the last training? And the final, third question. Is it ok and is it a good idea to add chin-ups before DL (my priority is wide back), add press-ups on bars after BP (for better load of chest and triceps) and add biceps curls after SQ (to give some stress to arms as well). I know that supposedly basic exercises will give enough load to your arms as well, but still I’m afraid it’s not enough and once a week or even once 1.5 week it wouldn’t be a bad idea to train my biceps as well.
Maxim, one workout a week will not work. Two will squeak by: SQ heavy, BP heavy on on one day, SQ light, BP light, DL heavy on another day.
Light training days are important for many reasons. All successful strength plans have unloading days built into them one way or another. An explanation would be too long; please refer to my book "Power to the People!" or the "Periodization Demystified" chapter in my book "Beyond Bodybuilding" (www.beyondbpdybuilding.com). Don't add or subtract any exercises; Faleev's is a system, not just a collection of exercises, sets, and reps.
When I began lifting I was almost 19 and followed very typical body builder routines. Chest/Shoulders/Tris, Back/Bis, Legs. Chest/Bis, Back/Tris, Legs, Shoulders....all those. I did get bigger AND stronger (as all beginners do), but I hit a wall pretty quickly. Too much volume, too many sets till failure, too much intensity (weight load). I just didn't have the neural capacity to keep this type of training up. I would experience fantastic pumps, but no *real* size gains.
My body exploded when I adopted 5x5 methods, however. I rarely got a super huge pump, but most leading experts would argue that a pump is useless anyways! What I DID accomplish with this training was more pounds on the scale and a leaner, stronger body. A routine is only as good as the time it takes your body to adapt to it. Using progressive overload with 5x5 methods makes it difficult to adapt, especially if you're changing your rep schema like the article suggests! You're also allowing for maximum muscle fibre recruitment through maximal lifting, as well as upward fluctuations in Test! (although, i think this effect is overrated. test levels peak during the heavy lift, and then drop lower soon after)
Training until failure is only useful under the following conditions: you're training very infrequently (HIT), you're purposely overtraining (for perhaps a week or 2), or you are anabolically enhanced. I would also add that training until failure on small muscle, isolated muscle groups can be alright. In order to handle regular training-till-failure routines, you need to develop the neuromuscular capability to do so.
Good read, but that's to be expect when it's Pavel! No discussion of weightlifting is complete without citing him!
I've been training many of Canada's top athletes, and ordinary folks, using Pavel's Kettlebell (RKC) and "PTP" methods. The results have been, and continue to be, fantastic...the best I've ever seen.
Cole Summers
Team Canada Strength Coach
While the approaches have some similarities, they are clearly much different appproaches - HIT has fewer sets to failure with a larger number of exercises, Pavel insists on 5 sets for a small number of exercises. Interestingly, neither one suggests the clean, which many fitness writers think is the best overall exercise.
Let us know your thoughts on the appropriate use of each technique and your experience with each.
Thanks,
Tim
I trained with Power to the People protocol, dead lifts and benches for 2 sets of 5, in 2002 and 2003 and can attest that I made easy gains and felt fantastic after the workouts - more energized instead of drained.
It is good that this type of training is gaining wider exposure.
Thanks Tim and Pavel. Pavel really impressed that you taking time to respond to everyone.
To the people that are worried about not getting their cardio in (for fat burning I'm assuming), or spending a loooong time at the gym, and are not concerned with becoming powerlifters.
I spend less than 30 minutes in the gym each day 4/5 days a week. I do no cardio- but the workouts that I'm doing have me a sweaty mess in less than 10 minutes and keep me at less than 10% body fat.
The solution that my workout partner and I currently use is density training(Vince Gironda was big proponent of this type of training). Density is how much you weight you lift within a tightly regulated period. Knowing how much weight x how many reps within your limited time, means you can easily track how much work you are able to do in each workout.
Set a limited time and do as many sets as you can of a set amount of reps keeping close track of how long you rest.
For example: 5 minutes of incline press - take rests of between 10-20 seconds and do no more than 5 reps. The weight needs to be heavy enough that you won't be able to do 5 reps in your last set. Don't go to heavy though- or you won't be able to maximise your reps in the set time.
If you want to go heavier- take a longer time- say 9 minutes with sets of 2 or 3 and rest 40 seconds.
Go at it with intensity- at the end of my brief workout I'm cooked. One body part per 5 days a week. At my current level of intensity I couldn't do another body part on the same day at the same level of intensity.
All of this gives a brief, very hard workout which maximises output of growth hormone, testosterone, and really speeds up your metabolism.
On this program I have gained sized and rehabbed a shoulder injury (not lifting related) because I was able to use weights that would have been too light for conventional lifting routines, but became heavy enough over the set period that I couldn't complete full sets towards the end.
Before I start I'll do a brief warmup of joint mobility calf and ab work, and I'll stretch afterward then I'm done. Short and very sweet.
I'd gotten used to doing alternating lifts in pairs with 60 seconds rest between, so waiting 5-10+ minutes between sets is quite a foreign concept. At least I'll go through a lot of books and magazines this way. Thanks TIm and Pavel for sharing!
The reason this program advocates focusing on only exercise per session is because the body is limited in the amount of adaptation that can be achieved from the stimulus of the training session or series of sessions. If, for example, you train to develop strength, speed, endurance, and coordination with lots of different exercises in one session, the body's adaptation response will be limited. But if you train to develop only one motor ability through one motor pattern, the body will recognize the specific training stimulus and adapt accordingly. Hence gains are more pronounced in focused programs.
5 x 5 is not the end-all-be-all of repetition series in my opinion, but it works because it tend to be close to the point at which total mechanical work and total load are optimized. Put another way, 5 x 5 will (often) allow you to lift the heaviest weight the most amount of times. This will increase strength, and is a very effective way to elicit hormonal and metabolic effects that build muscle and burn fat.
To Pavel: I loved Naked Warrior and I perform and recommend your exercises all the time! You're an inspiration!
Thanks!
If a workout based on a progressive overload system of 5 x 5 is great for strength would I be correct in thinking that a progressive overload workout plan based on 5 x 10 would be better for building size?
Set schemes like 3x3 and 5x5 work great for strength but not for mass. So, no 5x10 is not good for size. It will shift your focus away from the important things, which are:
Focus on the muscle. Slow down the lift so that you lift with the muscle and not with momentum. Lift a little bit lighter than when lifting for strength.
Do approximately 6-9 sets of 8-12 reps per muscle group weekly.
Focus on progressive overload - doing a little bit more each time you train.
Should we increase the weight each set (building to a "target" weight for the final set) or maintain the same weight for all 5 sets?
Thanks,
Eric
When other fitness "gurus" start swiping.
Check out Alywn Cosgroves latest article (Hacking Your Strength Training) over at T-nation and tell me he didn't write that article after reading this one.
If doing multiple sets, should stretching be done between sets or only at the end of the weight training routine? Ive heard that stretching before heavy training weakens the muscle.
Thanks for taking the time to reply....
Sorry, it may have been the way I phrased my initial question but I'm still a little confused from your answer...
As you say focus on 6-9 sets of 8-12 reps per body part per week with an emphasis on progressive overload for size.
So doing 5 sets of 10 for each body part once a week and focusing on Progresive Overload ie. every workout doing more (even if only by one more rep) until 5 sets of 10 are completed and then increase the weight for next time.
This would not be good for getting big?
What if you have a chronically bad back which makes squats and deadlifts not possible? What 2 exercises would you substitute? Leg presses and pullups?
thanks.
"Hi Yavor,
Thanks for taking the time to reply….
Sorry, it may have been the way I phrased my initial question but I’m still a little confused from your answer…
As you say focus on 6-9 sets of 8-12 reps per body part per week with an emphasis on progressive overload for size.
So doing 5 sets of 10 for each body part once a week and focusing on Progresive Overload ie. every workout doing more (even if only by one more rep) until 5 sets of 10 are completed and then increase the weight for next time.
This would not be good for getting big?"
Not really, muscular hypertrophy is not significantly stimulated in sets past the first or second. This is why HIT (High Intensity Training) and HST (Hypertrophy Specific Training) both use use only 1-2 sets exercise. There is GVT (German Volume Training), which uses primarily 10x10. Things like this do work for size gains, but are not size specific, but rather Strength-Endurance specific.
Brian
the thing is, to work for hypertrophy, it's not good to focus on a number, but on fatiguing the muscle.
So it's not about completing those 5 sets of 10. It's about blasting the muscle. When the weight feels too easy, it's time to add more weight - that's when progressive overload comes.
So, 5x10 works. But it's the wrong thing to focus your mind on.
I train in muay thai (thai boxing), and olympic wrestling. I want to increase my strength and explosiveness in wrestling.
Should I do this type of workout, or is there a better one for a wrestler?
Would this affect me negatively for muay thai competition?
Much thanks,
Vladimir D
This program is very specific to powerlifting, where conditioning has almost no impact on performance. At better program might be one found in Power To The People (plenty of room at add conditioning) or Enter the Kettlebell.
"Set schemes like 3×3 and 5×5 work great for strength but not for mass. "
I can guarantee you that most naturals will gain more muscle mass from such protocols as opposed to typical "bodybuilding" rep schemes.
Most people f* up and ovetrain when attempting the traditional methods of mass gaining. Trust me.
A sound protocol like 5 x 5 = less chance of screwing up, better long term progress.
That's my experience as a personal trainer with numerous, very happy clients.
"I train in muay thai (thai boxing), and olympic wrestling. I want to increase my strength and explosiveness in wrestling. Should I do this type of workout, or is there a better one for a wrestler? Would this affect me negatively for muay thai competition?"
Vladimir, the Faleev schedule is too demanding to be done with a second and especially a third sport. You need a lower volume regimen such as "Power to the People!" (the standard version, not the "bear").
"I am training for my first Sprint Triathlon and was going to use the 5×5 regimen for my strength training. Is that appropriate or should I consider a kettlebell program instead (which one)?"
Brian, kettlebells would be much better
"I am training for my first Sprint Triathlon and was going to use the 5×5 regimen for my strength training. Is that appropriate or should I consider a kettlebell program instead (which one)?"
Brian, kettlebells would be much better.
"What if you have a chronically bad back which makes squats and deadlifts not possible? What 2 exercises would you substitute? Leg presses and pullups?"
Larry, I suggest that you see a doctor and then get the book "Ultimate Fitness and Performance" by Prof. Stuart McGill, #1 spine biomechanist in the world, from his site www.backfitpro.com. Meanwhile leg preses and pullups will have to do. Power and healt to you!
"If doing multiple sets, should stretching be done between sets or only at the end of the weight training routine? Ive heard that stretching before heavy training weakens the muscle."
Davro, only if you do special "loaded stretches". Otherwise stretch afterwards.
"Should we increase the weight each set (building to a “target” weight for the final set) or maintain the same weight for all 5 sets?"
Eric, in this program you stay with the same weight for all 5 work sets. If you must, you may do warmup sets beforehand.
"I agree to what Pavel has to say. I can see how somebody with a clean diet can follow this workout and obtain a nice body with great strength to bodyweight ratio. What is not covered is any type of conditioning or cardiovascular training that should be done to prevent heart diseases. These workouts prescribed last an hour with at least 50 minutes of it being rest. Thats a total of 50 minutes of exercise a week and not what I would consider an active lifestyle. There must be some type of conditioning for the heart to compliment this workout. Such as, sprinting or interval training with agility drills."
Dallas, of course, cardio is something you need to do in addition. Just don't overdo it when strength is your priority.
"So please correct me if I’m wrong but… If a workout based on a progressive overload system of 5 x 5 is great for strength would I be correct in thinking that a progressive overload workout plan based on 5 x 10 would be better for building size?"
Stephen, 10x5 perhaps but not 5x10.
According to the energetic theory of muscle hypertrophy, a muscle cell possesses a limited amount of energy, or ATP, at any given moment. It is spent two ways: protein synthesis and mechanical work. Normally, a muscle is in an anabolic/catabolic balance. It resembles a pool with the “in” and “out” pipes of the same size. Whatever proteins are degraded by your lame daily activities get replaced. In contrast, when a muscle is forced to contract against great resistance AND perform a large amount of work, it uses most of its available ATP supply. Consequently, less energy can be spent on protein re-synthesis. The catabolic processes start prevailing and the muscle mass is reduced. In the aftermath of this destruction the muscle cell gets a chance to channel its energy to anabolism. It just goes nuts and synthesizes more protein than you had before the workout! Just in case, for the rainy day.
It becomes apparent that weights that are too light do not open the “pipes” to “drain the pool” wide enough, weights that are too heavy do not open them long enough, and excessive rest periods allow the “pool” to get “refilled” thus negating all the “drainage” done.
That fancy explanation could be summed up simply: get a pump with big weights and you will grow.
"How about a 80/20 to stretching for martial artists? ;-)"
Christoffer, practice easy stretching throughout the day every day and once a week hit it hard.
"Since I’m new to these types of lifts, what is the most efficient way to discover my starting weights for the lifts?"
Starting Off, pick up a very light weight and do 5 reps. Rest. Add 10 pounds and repeat. Keep repeating until you have to work to get 5 (but don't have to kill yourself). That is your weight for the next workout.
You stated that the bench would respond to lower volume than the overhead press. I have been using this routine with the side press - does this also require more volume? In the past, I have usually pressed five times per week, although I did make progess pressing twice a week on a Verkhoshansky routine.
Thanks for the feedback. I just order the ETK starter kit and look forward to its arrival. One more quick question. Can you suggest a kettlebell program that utilizes Faleev's Nothing Extra (80/20) principles? Thanks again.
"I just order the ETK starter kit and look forward to its arrival. One more quick question. Can you suggest a kettlebell program that utilizes Faleev’s Nothing Extra (80/20) principles?"
Brian, ETK focuses on a very limited number of exercises so it complies with Pareto's law. As for Parkinson's law, you could enter the www.tacticalstrengthchallenge.com competition, at least the snatch portion of it.
I agree with you - if they know what they are doing.
Dude, you are pretty strong, so you can guide your clients and push them as much as they need to be pushed. Which is a lot if they are to succeed gaining a good body with strength training.
To look big with 5x5 you should get to like 300-400-500 lbs in the 3 power lifts.
Most newbies starting 5x5 underestimate this. On the other hand, gyms are full of decently sized men that don't have a clue about strength training.
They have been blitzing their muscles with split training.
So yeah - 5x5 is great if you know where you need to get with it - which is to get pretty damn strong.
Also, it is harder to push yourself on deadlifts, squats and benches than it is on the split training exercises.
I'm a distance runner and completed my first 2 week of the 5x5 program. Everything went smoothly. I'd run for 4-5 miles then immediately perform one of the 3 lifts.
"You stated that the bench would respond to lower volume than the overhead press. I have been using this routine with the side press - does this also require more volume? In the past, I have usually pressed five times per week, although I did make progess pressing twice a week on a Verkhoshansky routine."
Tom, volume is a weekly matter so doing a couple of sets 5 days a week adds up.
If you make gains on a low volume plan by all means keep doing it. Whatever the reasons, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
"Pavel, you recommend not combining the 5×5 workouts with training for another sport. Why? What are the dangers/risks of doing this? I’m a distance runner and completed my first 2 week of the 5×5 program. Everything went smoothly. I’d run for 4-5 miles then immediately perform one of the 3 lifts."
Mike, the schedule will become very demanding once the weights climb. Your body has limited adaptation resources and you need to focus them on your primary sport. "Power to the People!" is a good strength program for shorter distance runners. www.bearpowered.com tells you how LA coach Barry Ross brought 17-year old Allison Felix to the fastest 200m in the world with PTP, a shorter and less demanding plan than 5x5 with squats.
I have been doing Starting strength for about 6 months. I was going to try this program. My last deadlift for starting strength was 1x5x315. what do you think would be a good weight to start for 5x5. to me, 5x5 accross seems like a lot of volume for a deadlift.
Thanks
Thanks for the great advice on starting weights! The article and comments don't really say how fast the movements should be. I usually try not to go too fast, but move at a reasonable pace. 5 reps take 30-40 seconds or so at that rate. What do you suggest?
Thanks!
"I have been doing Starting strength for about 6 months. I was going to try this program. My last deadlift for starting strength was 1×5x315. what do you think would be a good weight to start for 5×5. to me, 5×5 accross seems like a lot of volume for a deadlift."
Mike, start with 275. It is a lot of volume -until you adapt to it.
"The article and comments don’t really say how fast the movements should be. I usually try not to go too fast, but move at a reasonable pace. 5 reps take 30-40 seconds or so at that rate. What do you suggest?"
Starting Off, rep speed is subject of ongoing debate in the powerlifting community. Some insist that you must explode, others prefer the training rep pace which matches that of a max lift -unrushed but not exaggeratedly slow. Both camps have science and records to back their points of view. If you want to dig deep and make up your own mind, read my www.powertothepeoplemonthly.com, a newsletter for serious powerlifters. If you just want to lift, choose the second option -a steady, unrushed, but not super slow pace.
Pavel,
Would this sort of program work for somebody trying to loose weight without loosing the muscle mass.Anyway i have started on the following routine and added 20 Minutes on treadmill after the workouts.
Monday –heavy squat (SQ)
Tuesday –heavy benchpress (BP)
Wednesday –heavy deadlift (DL)
Thursday – light SQ
Friday –light BP
Saturday –off
Sunday –off
"Would this sort of program work for somebody trying to loose weight without loosing the muscle mass."
Bobby, for the time being you will be better off with a less demanding muscle building schedule (e.g. 3x5) and a demanding conditioning plan (e.g. kettlebells, sprints, etc.).
1. Bench Press (po sheme) light,med,heavy weeks for example 90% 3x3, 85% 4x4, etc.
2. Bench Press Assistance (alternate floor press, band press, static-explosive contrast, speed bench every week)
3. Incline Press
4. Shoulder Presses
You absolutely CAN'T progress in powerlifts past beginner level without ALTERNATING INTENSITIES and certainly assistance work!
Currently Ukranian lifters use either this high-volume low-frequency protocols like I've listed OR classical Sheiko-inspired med-intensity high-frequency protocols.
Thanks very much for the reply.
I have managed to set up a very basic floor press apparatus (barbell across two sturdy supports), so I intend to try this movement in future. I haven't 'benched' in years, but am keen to stick to the program as closely as you describe it.
My other lifts are zercher DL and zercher SQ. I use these because I train at home and do not have the money or space for a rack. In addition, I find that lifting 90kg for 5x5 ZDL is more demanding than regular DL of the same weight and I am forced to train on wooden floors, so piling on weight endlessly is not always an option for me. Do you think that these are acceptable substitues for the three lifts in the program?
Thank you.
One last question!
I have read that Jack Reape recommends a three weeks forward, one week back approach. I have used this for my last two or three cycles and quite liked it. Would you recommend similar for this routine? For example, oush for three weeks; on week four, drop to 66% volume and 66% intensity; build up again from week five?
Thanks.
Tom
"I have read that Jack Reape recommends a three weeks forward, one week back approach. I have used this for my last two or three cycles and quite liked it. Would you recommend similar for this routine? For example, oush for three weeks; on week four, drop to 66% volume and 66% intensity; build up again from week five?"
Tom, usually I am opposed to any changes in a tested training plan until the person has been on it for months and has some data to analyze. Your change is simple enough and tested; go for it.
Great post, Tim.
This question is for either of you. I do a 2 hour martial arts training session 2 times a week. It's pretty intense and exhausting. Would a PL style 5x5 workout interfere with my training there or would doing the aerobic combat work interfere with getting the most out of the strength training? Keep up the good work.
I saw that you really enjoyed the Warrior diet, but I had never heard of it. I went and got the book and I loved the concept... I started doing it and I feel great! Ori Hofmekler's ideas really make sense and by God, I feel so much better during the day, and I have already lost a decent amount of weight (for the first few days at least). The point that he makes that I like the most is that all other diets are based upon restriction (all the time). His is only based upon restriction during the day... I feel great after I eat a complete meal in the evening, and I can actually think during the day (I am a college student). As I have only been on the diet for a few days I can only imagine what the day-to-day will be like when I really get used to it. Thank you for mentioning it!!
To Tim Ferriss,
Ori Hofmekler makes a very interesting point in the book, the Warrior Diet. The more recent trend is to eat 3 to 6 smaller meals a day (rather than his one large meal), and he says (and it is logically obvious) that eating this way takes up a lot of time each day. You might do your own evaluation and add it to "The 4-Hour Body" section on this blog. JAT.
Brandon
"This program would work for beginners and for beginners ONLY. I would say this program will plateu your bench at 1.2-1.4xBW forever. Ukranian powerlifters like Kutcher DO NOT train like that even the slightest. Here is a typical “Bench day” of a WPC Ukranian lifter (I’m trained by one, and he personally knows many lifters : Yevhen Pavlov - equipped BP 285kg at 140kg bodyweight @ WPC Worlds Miami 2008 - he trains WITH him, and many others) :
1. Bench Press (po sheme) light,med,heavy weeks for example 90% 3×3, 85% 4×4, etc.
2. Bench Press Assistance (alternate floor press, band press, static-explosive contrast, speed bench every week)
3. Incline Press
4. Shoulder Presses
You absolutely CAN’T progress in powerlifts past beginner level without ALTERNATING INTENSITIES and certainly assistance work!
Currently Ukranian lifters use either this high-volume low-frequency protocols like I’ve listed OR classical Sheiko-inspired med-intensity high-frequency protocols."
Fortis, you are correct, an more experienced lifter has to cycle. Faleev has his own scheme: several weeks of 5x5, several of 4x4, several of 6-4-2-1 but this is just one of many options.
Ukrainians have many training systems. Leonid Kotendzha for instance, the coach who has trained Vitaly Papazov to break Kaz's 23 year IPF total record, had the latter do 800-900 lifts in each of the three competition lifts in the 60-77.5% intensity zone during the preparatory period often doing 5x5 with 75% 1RM in both the SQ and the BP on the same day.
Band presses and such are not something a beginner to intermediate lifter should worry about.
"My other lifts are zercher DL and zercher SQ. I use these because I train at home and do not have the money or space for a rack. In addition, I find that lifting 90kg for 5×5 ZDL is more demanding than regular DL of the same weight and I am forced to train on wooden floors, so piling on weight endlessly is not always an option for me. Do you think that these are acceptable substitues for the three lifts in the program?"
Tom, I love Zerchers but I would do either ZDLs or ZSQs, not both.
"I do a 2 hour martial arts training session 2 times a week. It’s pretty intense and exhausting. Would a PL style 5×5 workout interfere with my training there or would doing the aerobic combat work interfere with getting the most out of the strength training?"
Andrew, if you attempt to follow the 5x5 plan and train MA hard you will just compromise both. Either find a less demanding strength training schedule (see my above answers) or take it easy with MA.
You said: "You absolutely CAN’T progress in powerlifts past beginner level without ALTERNATING INTENSITIES"
You do realize that this program has both heavy and light days, right?
In fact, another term for switching back and forth between heavy and light days is ALTERNATING INTENSITIES.
Weird, huh?
;)
"Pavel: I just bought Power to the people book and Video. My goal is to gain strenght but loose fat at the same time. I attend a well equiped GYM but no so sure about doing deadlifts and Squats by my self, since theres no good trainer at the gym. Should I go forward following the video lessons. I havent found any PL trainer in Mexico and theres no PL Competitions either. (I`m sure this is a problem in many countries). Another thing wich confuses me is that the routine in Tim post talks about 3 escercises and your book talks mainly about two. I really need a 80/20 routine for building strenght while loosing fat. What do you recommend, Thanks in advance for your feeedback and excellent support."
Vamerben, neither Faleev's plan nor mine focuses on fat loss. You may do moderate cardio in addition but it still will not be the focus.
If you still chose to pursue PTP right now, consider hiring a coach to review your form online. Mark Reifkind is a former coach PL Team USA. rifstonian@yahoo.com
Thanks again for the great article and your great responses to all the questions here. What is your opinion on making larger than 10 lb increases in weight if the workout from one week to the next gets easier, even with the increase in weight?
You said not to use both ZDL and ZSQ in this program. Is this because they use the same bar position and thereby work the upper body muscles in a similar fashion?
I would like to use ZSQ, as I feel my squat is weak in comparison to my deadlift. Would I be losing some of the effect on the posterior chain, or does the ZSQ adequately work lower back, hamstrings etc?
Would you recommend ZDL or ZSQ as the best bang for the buck?
Presumably, choosing one over the other would mean dropping to four days a week of heavy and light floor press and ZSQ.
As a follow up to the above, would a barbell power snatch with no knee dip be an acceptable alternative?
"Would a barbell power snatch with no knee dip be an acceptable alternative"
Tom, because the snatch is a quicker lift it requires totally different loading parameters. Try snatch grip DLs, they are a lot harder and call for less weight than regular DLs.
I'm finding my grip slipping when doing deadlifts (so far I've been able to hang on). Do you have any suggestions for supplemental grip training to help with this?
Thanks!
I`m impressed with your system and your support answearing all the questions. i have started your recomendationsand I like it a lot. I have some Lordosis, nothing that requires an operation, but I just wanted to know if I shuld stick to deadlifts and squats or if theres any other recomendation. Many friends asked me about this system and ask if you plan to have a Spanish version of the book and DVDs soon. gracias y felicidades!
"When during Faleev’s weekly cycle would be an appropriate time to integrate light kettlebell training?"
Bob, a light quick lift workout for conditioning and a couple of get-ups could be done twice a week after the heavy lifts, ideally a couple of hours later.
"I`m impressed with your system and your support answearing all the questions. i have started your recomendationsand I like it a lot. I have some Lordosis, nothing that requires an operation, but I just wanted to know if I shuld stick to deadlifts and squats or if theres any other recomendation. Many friends asked me about this system and ask if you plan to have a Spanish version of the book and DVDs soon. gracias y felicidades!"
Pat, thank you for your kind words! The decision is up to a doctor who is experienced in lifting. No plans for Spanish editions for the moment.
"I’m finding my grip slipping when doing deadlifts (so far I’ve been able to hang on). Do you have any suggestions for supplemental grip training to help with this?"
Use chalk. A good exercise for DL grip is loading up a bar set up in a power rack above your knees, picking it up with one arm, like a suitcase, and holding. After your regular DLs or on a different day.
Thank you again for your response.
This quesiton relates to the stretching. I have Relax Into Stretch; are there any movement in it that you recommend to follow up each squat, bench and deadlift day?
Thanks.
Tom
"This quesiton relates to the stretching. I have Relax Into Stretch; are there any movement in it that you recommend to follow up each squat, bench and deadlift day?"
Haddon, you need stretches for the hams, quads, and hip flexors. You may stretch your back but not with forward flexion stretches like the toe touch.
I recently completed the first week of this program and will follow it in pursuit of new maxes in the the big three in six months--on July 12th, 30 weeks from starting date. I have never planned a PR attempt this far out, or stuck strictly to a program for six months... So I would like your advice on how many weeks I should spend in each set/rep bracket 30 weeks out. Also, I modified the 4-day-week to "SQUAT-BENCH-OFF-DEADLIFT-OFF-LIGHT SQUAT/BENCH" because my past experience with 3 straight days of heavy lifting isn't good.. Thanks for your support!
"I recently completed the first week of this program and will follow it in pursuit of new maxes in the the big three in six months–on July 12th, 30 weeks from starting date. I have never planned a PR attempt this far out, or stuck strictly to a program for six months… So I would like your advice on how many weeks I should spend in each set/rep bracket 30 weeks out."
Jason, first stay with 5x5 for as long as you make gains in the BP (it will peter out first). Then add weight and do 3x3 the week after, 2x2 the week after that, and then max. After that run a more planned cycle. Power to you!
"is there a way to use KB c+p for a pttp program along with doing my barbell dl’s?"
melkon, yes. Keep your DL volume low, 2x5, and do many, 10-20, sets of 5 with a single KB.
"do you mean each day for five days a week like the ptp program?"
melkon, 2-3 times a week, press 4-5.
Thanks for your article - I really enjoyed it. And your book - PTTP - also brilliant.
Can you tell me what the correct technique for bench press is? You mention using your lats - could you elaborate?
I know Faleev's approach is a system based on the three exercises. But as a beginner who is looking for an 80/20 approach to strength/toning is the squat really necessary? Would the deadlift and bench press be sufficient?
Thanks vm
I've been following the program (had to use the 4 day schedule a couple times to fit it in) for 3.5 weeks, and I have to say I'm impressed! Each week I've added 10 lbs to each lift, and some weeks the heavier weight seems lighter than the week before! I'm slightly overweight and have gained a solid 6 lbs, but it feels and looks like I've lost fat, so I'm very happy with my results so far. I've probably gained 10+lbs of muscle at least, and lost the difference in fat.
S.O.
I'm entering a building phase to increase strength (and mass), endurance and flexibility. I plan to use Favlev's program for myself during that period, and add endurance exercises at the end of each work out.
My girlfriend though, wants my help to loose some weight and I wonder if my plan would work well for her. Her goals are to loose X pounds and get a leaner, but not muscular, body.
Is there otherwise a plan that would work well for both of us?
Thank you for your time.
Tim, I am excited to hear more about you and KBs. Whoo ha.
Special thanks to Pavel for taking time to answer everyones questions here.
rock on
Mike T Nelson, RKC, PhD(c)
"Can you tell me what the correct technique for bench press is? You mention using your lats - could you elaborate?I know Faleev’s approach is a system based on the three exercises. But as a beginner who is looking for an 80/20 approach to strength/toning is the squat really necessary? Would the deadlift and bench press be sufficient?"
David, I describe the proper BP technique in great detail in my book 'Beyond Bodybuilding', http://www.dragondoor.com/b31.html.
If the program calls for the squat, you need to squat. PTP is a DL based program; Faleev's needs both. It is not a good idea to change proven training plans until you have the experience.
"I’ve been following the program (had to use the 4 day schedule a couple times to fit it in) for 3.5 weeks, and I have to say I’m impressed! Each week I’ve added 10 lbs to each lift, and some weeks the heavier weight seems lighter than the week before! I’m slightly overweight and have gained a solid 6 lbs, but it feels and looks like I’ve lost fat, so I’m very happy with my results so far. I’ve probably gained 10+lbs of muscle at least, and lost the difference in fat."
Comrades, this is what happens when you follow the instructions and don't fool around! Keep it up, Starting Off!
"My girlfriend though, wants my help to loose some weight and I wonder if my plan would work well for her. Her goals are to loose X pounds and get a leaner, but not muscular, body.Is there otherwise a plan that would work well for both of us?"
Christoffer, kettlebell training would be most appropriate for both of you. www.russiankettlebells.com has starter kits for men and women.
"But I am worried a little bit about muscular/strength imbalance. There is no rowing movement and it seem like the rear deltoids are ignored."
John, the bench press, when done properly, usess the rear deltoids very strongly (you 'tear the bar apart' with them). The DL gets them too. Adding exercises to this tested plan is one of the worst mistakes you could make. Humor me—test your rows today, then follow the Faleev plan for six months and retest your row. Your rowing strength will have increased significantly and the mass on the back of your shoulders with it.
Comrades, it bears repeating—do not try to 'improve' a professionally designed routine. You have nothing to gain and everything to loose.
"Special thanks to Pavel for taking time to answer everyones questions here."
Thank you, Com. Mike!
S.O.
Do you have an opinion on the 5X5 program by Stronglifts.com vs Faleev's 5X5 program? Thanks in advance.
BKH
"Do you have an opinion on the 5X5 program by Stronglifts.com vs Faleev’s 5X5 program?"
Brian, I am not familiar with the Stronglifts.com program.
The stronglifts program alternates between Workout A and Workout B below. Workouts are three days a week alternating between A and B. The site quotes your work so I assumed you knew of it. What do you think of this versus Faleev's program Thanks again
Workout A Workout B
Squat 5x5 Squat 5x5
Bench Press 5x5 Overhead Press 5x5
Inverted Rows 3xF Deadlift 1x5
Push-ups 3xF Pull-ups/Chin-ups 3xF
Reverse Crunch 3x12 Prone Bridges 3x30sec
How about 3x3 on the heavy days and 3x2 light days?
Thanks,
Derrick
"The stronglifts program alternates between Workout A and Workout B below. Workouts are three days a week alternating between A and B. The site quotes your work so I assumed you knew of it. What do you think of this versus Faleev’s program Thanks again
Workout A Workout B
Squat 5×5 Squat 5×5
Bench Press 5×5 Overhead Press 5×5
Inverted Rows 3xF Deadlift 1×5
Push-ups 3xF Pull-ups/Chin-ups 3xF
Reverse Crunch 3×12 Prone Bridges 3×30sec"
Brian, looks like a good schedule. Make sure there is some form of cycling.
"How about 3×3 on the heavy days and 3×2 light days?"
Derrick, you will get either a peaking program for the last few weks before a meet or one for building or maintaining strength without building muscle. Very few people grow on three triples. Fives can't be beat.
You have inspired me to better myself, and your advice has come through 100%! Which book of yours would be the best for direction on stretching after these three big lifts? (I will definitely buy what you suggest - I want to support you after all the free and valuable help I've gotten) I tried using a standard stretch for the butt, but the indian style type stretch made my knee hurt pretty bad;any suggestions?
Thanks :)
Starting Off
"You have inspired me to better myself, and your advice has come through 100%! Which book of yours would be the best for direction on stretching after these three big lifts? (I will definitely buy what you suggest - I want to support you after all the free and valuable help I’ve gotten) I tried using a standard stretch for the butt, but the indian style type stretch made my knee hurt pretty bad;any suggestions?"
Starting Off, thank you for your kind words! My 'Strength Stretching' DVD has been endorsed by many powerlifting champions and coaches:
http://www.dragondoor.com/dv024.html
I enjoyed reading this. I asked Tim about what to do to bulk up since I'm a runner/decathlete/triathlete. What would be the effects of a lot of cardio to this type of workout? Leaning up or counterintuitive and pointless to do cardio?
I'll be getting back into running about 40-50miles a week with lifting.
Any thoughts?
Thanks so much in advance!!!
Chris
"I like Crossfit’s methodology better."
christopher ming lee, you are comparing apples and oranges. The two methodologies have totally different goals.
"What would be the effects of a lot of cardio to this type of workout? Leaning up or counterintuitive and pointless to do cardio? I’ll be getting back into running about 40-50miles a week with lifting."
Chris, you would be getting minimal results in running and lifting. If you are a runner you need a different strength regimen. And don't plan on getting bigger, unless you switch to sprinting.
S.O.
"As a testament to Pavel’s earlier comment on squats working the abs: I hadn’t noticed any work on my abs until this week. On my 5th week heavy squat (going up 10 lbs each week) I hit the point at which I got a really good ab workout just from doing the squats - I had to use my abs to stabilize the weight and it was a heck of a workout."
Starting Off, a good call to stick to the plan! Comrades, pay attention!
I was surprised to see the 5x5 routine here instead of the pure strength PTP workout. Anyway, if I follow this routine, am I allowed to do cardio? If so, how much and how often?
Great post btw.
Thanks!
Before all, thanks to Pavel and Tim for this article, really interessing, i'm currently putting it in practice, 5 days a week, as recommanded. I'll let you know my progress (Don't know yet if I should report every two weeks, or less)
Some information from where I start :
I haven't done any serious training for 19 months, so I guess we could say I'm starting from nothing, I'm 19, 1.64 cm, 60.2 kg, 7.5 kg of body fat ( 12.5/100)
Currently, my workload are:
56 kg on squat
20 kg on deadlift
25kg on bench press
don't laugh thanks^^
I have a question for Pavel: About abs, can we do the same kind of exercice for abs? for exemple taking some weight and doing 5*5 series of basics abs exercice?
Or is it dangerous for the back?
Thank you in advance for your answer
"Pavel,
I was surprised to see the 5×5 routine here instead of the pure strength PTP workout. Anyway, if I follow this routine, am I allowed to do cardio? If so, how much and how often?
Great post btw.
Thanks!"
Manche,
In the comments above, Pavel suggests doing the 'program minimum' from his book and video, both titled, "Enter The Kettlebell," as a compliment to this lifting schedule. A workout based on this program lasts 15 minutes twice a week and 22 minutes twice a week for four total workouts per week. I highly recommend the book and video as well as the combination of the two systems he reccomends.
S.O.
"I was surprised to see the 5×5 routine here instead of the pure strength PTP workout. Anyway, if I follow this routine, am I allowed to do cardio? If so, how much and how often?"
Manche, the idea is not just to build strength but mass as well.
Cardio is fine, just take it easy. Marty Gallagher's hiking recommendations are most appropriate in my opinion. If you go hard on cardio you will compromise your muscle gains.
"About abs, can we do the same kind of exercice for abs? for exemple taking some weight and doing 5*5 series of basics abs exercice?"
Thomas, generally, yes (I recommend low rep ab training in my book 'Bullet-Proof Abs'), but not on Faleev's plan. Stick to it as written.
You definitely need to up the poundages. It is good to be conservative but one can go too far.
I've been progressing well for the last 6 weeks, adding 10 lbs each week to each of the lifts. I've had noticable fat loss and muscle gain, which is exciting! My squat is 50lbs lower than my dead (squat:185lbs dead:235lbs), and I was wondering if that was a problem, since I always see people with squats and deads so close to each other. Is there any reason to try and keep the two similar or to be concerned about the imbalance?
Thanks!
S.O.
"I’ve been progressing well for the last 6 weeks, adding 10 lbs each week to each of the lifts. I’ve had noticable fat loss and muscle gain, which is exciting! My squat is 50lbs lower than my dead (squat:185lbs dead:235lbs), and I was wondering if that was a problem, since I always see people with squats and deads so close to each other. Is there any reason to try and keep the two similar or to be concerned about the imbalance?"
Starting Off, it is normal. In powerlifting special suits (imagine wearing several pairs of jeans that are three sizes too small for you on top of each other) add a lot of pounds to the SQ but not to the DL. Raw lifters (those who do not wear assisting gear) usually pull more than they SQ.
Good work, keep it up!
When i'm referring to the weight I don't take into account the weight of the bar, just the weight that I add... but from the last two days I take your advise into account even if it was theoricaly "resting days".
So if we add the weight of the bar here is my new record:
Press: 48 kg (105 pounds)
Deadlift: 38 kg ( 83.6 pounds)
Squat:67.5 kg (148.5 pounds)
The difference between DL and SQ come I guess from the fact that for SQ I use "guidance" machine, not free weight...
About this I have a big question: for the press I tried to see how much could I reach with free weight and with guidance machine... the difference is, heavy, with the free weight I my limit is 48, but with the guidance I can go up to 58, probably more (I tried it at the end of the session...)
So what would you recommand? use the free weight or the guidance machine? I understand that with the free weight we use muscle to stabilize the bar, but I wonder if its worthy... (or if its better to that the guidance with higher weight...)
Thank you in advance for your answer...
Bars in my gym typically weigh 45lbs (20kg), so if you're not adding the weight of the bar that would account for the difference. I would suggest using free weights to gain more useful strength, but use the machine if you don't have a spotter and aren't comfortable with the weight. The machines typically have negligible weight and are balanced, so you don't add for the bar, but you should always factor the bar in to your total for free weights.
S.O.
I have difficulty squatting-due to past injuries my back curls which is unsafe. What excersise shold I do instead of squats? OHP etc?
I look forward to your reply.
This article is so good, last summer I participated in strength training but since then done conditioning training.I want to give this a go for the reason that it provided maximum progress, and focuses on the key strength training exercises.
Q. I am unable to squat (with proper technique i.e. curling back). What exercise should I do, or how could I change the program? As I know dead lifts provide some leg muscle development. But squat is the best(which annoys me).
Q. I would opt for the three days as it will provide more time for me to focus on other aspects of my life, how would you incorporate the above exercise into my workout. Mon, Wed, Fri?
Thank you and I look forward to your reply.
"I have difficulty squatting-due to past injuries my back curls which is unsafe. What excersise shold I do instead of squats? OHP etc?"
Dominic, almost anyone can learn to squat safely. My ‘Strength Stretching’ DVD will help you: http://www.dragondoor.com/dv024.html. Or you could hire a powerlifter or an expert trainer for a few lessons. Let me know where you are based and I might be able to recommend one.
"Q. I would opt for the three days as it will provide more time for me to focus on other aspects of my life, how would you incorporate the above exercise into my workout Mon, Wed, Fri?"
Dominic:
Monday – heavy SQ
Tuesday –off
Wednesday –heavy BP, light SQ
Thursday – off
Friday – heavy DL, light BP
Saturday – off
Sunday – off
I know "HOW" to squat. I used to do Stronglifts 5x5, and my brother and friend taught me how to squat with correct technique and I used a lot of strentching such as Squat stretch etc. Mobility DVD.
But I was born with Bilateral Talipes Equinovarus-in which the heel is drawn up and the sole turned inwards which means my heels cannot touch the floor when I squat down.
Q: Can I get away with Deadlifting and OHP and BP as a workout.
But thank you for your replies. Going to start this workout tomorrow so excited as have not done strength training in months.
Question: If I am only in the gym for an hour max as you only do two exercises at most what stretches are best for the following lifts?
Deadlift?
Bench?
OHP?
Squat?
What specific stretches prepare you best for these lifts Pavel?
"I know “HOW” to squat. I used to do Stronglifts 5×5, and my brother and friend taught me how to squat with correct technique and I used a lot of strentching such as Squat stretch etc. Mobility DVD. But I was born with Bilateral Talipes Equinovarus-in which the heel is drawn up and the sole turned inwards which means my heels cannot touch the floor when I squat down.Q: Can I get away with Deadlifting and OHP and BP as a workout."
dominic, could you squat with your shins vertical, as they do at Westside?
"What specific stretches prepare you best for these lifts Pavel?"
dominic, please see my 'Strength Stretching' DVD.
Go ahead and start the program without squats until we work out what to do about your SQs.
You recommended your 'Strength Stretching' DVD to me as well, and I have to say I'm impressed. My squat seemed much easier with only minor changes (I had already researched form and had it close, but perfected it with your video). My other two lifts improved as well - It's definitely a must-see for anyone planning on following this plan!
S.O.
"Pavel, You recommended your ‘Strength Stretching’ DVD to me as well, and I have to say I’m impressed. My squat seemed much easier with only minor changes (I had already researched form and had it close, but perfected it with your video). My other two lifts improved as well - It’s definitely a must-see for anyone planning on following this plan!"
Thank you for your kind words, Starting Off!
I just finished the book and I LOVE it.
I am a going to be 37 years old next month. I am a jack-of-all-trades in regard to marketing, business development and PR. I am on my my last and final horrible owner...I can't take.
Can anyone share with me more about finding a muse. I have been seriously brainstorming for about a month now and I just don't know where to start to break away from working for other people.
I am ready to go but I can't seem to find my direction...help!
K
I'm progressing well, and I have decided to work towards a personal goal (benching my own weight, will attain in 5-8 weeks hopefully), then I want to maintain the strength gains while focusing on losing fat w/ cardio/kettlebells (I need to lose around 20 lbs, even considering the muscle gains - I'm 5'11", 213lbs and only lifting 5x5 b:155 sq:195 dl:245 = chubby...). Any suggestions on how to mix the two for fat loss while maintaining strength in the pl's? I understand a good diet is key, too, I'm pretty strict now on veggies, fresh fruits and lean protiens.
Thanks!
S.O.
"I’m progressing well, and I have decided to work towards a personal goal (benching my own weight, will attain in 5-8 weeks hopefully), then I want to maintain the strength gains while focusing on losing fat w/ cardio/kettlebells (I need to lose around 20 lbs, even considering the muscle gains - I’m 5?11?, 213lbs and only lifting 5×5 b:155 sq:195 dl:245 = chubby…). Any suggestions on how to mix the two for fat loss while maintaining strength in the pl’s? I understand a good diet is key, too, I’m pretty strict now on veggies, fresh fruits and lean protiens."
Starting Off, don't change your training until you reach at least 1.5 times bodyweight BP, 2bw SQ and 2.5bw DL (for you that means 300, 400, and 500). You may add some KB swings for fat loss soon. Indeed, nutrition is important, find a reputable expert to listen to.
Thanks again for you advice! I'll stick to the plan as is and get the lifts higher before changing anything. It's definitely enjoyable enough, and the gains I've seen already are encouraging enough to take it farther :).
S.O.
Big fan here. I have a few of your books and am always looking to improve my lifts. I have been lifting for about 8 years but until recently have never been in a good enough financial position to hire a trainer. Do you know of a good one in the Baltimore area that you could recommend? Thanks again -
Pat
"I have no clue what’s happening, but I followed the routine for the first time last week and managed 5×5. I don’t know if it was all in ‘perfect form’. However, this week, when I added 10 pounds, I couldn’t squat correctly or bench even two reps. Did I get weaker? Also, when do you advise people should not attempt a rep? I might have gone to failure last time. I could’ve knocked another few reps after the workout was done though. Does that count?"
Kale, you picked too big of a weight. Back way off and start over. At the end of each set you should be able to do one more rep if you tried your hardest.
"Big fan here. I have a few of your books and am always looking to improve my lifts. I have been lifting for about 8 years but until recently have never been in a good enough financial position to hire a trainer. Do you know of a good one in the Baltimore area that you could recommend? Thanks again"
Pat, here is your trainer. Skilled with powerlifting and kettlebells:
Dan Cenidoza
Baltimore, MD
Phone: 443-562-7964
Email: bemoretraining@gmail.com
External Web Site: www.bemoretraining.com
first thank for answering all our question.
Second here are a set of new question
1)for the press: A big friend of mine, advice me to lift up my foot from the ground when I'm benching, (because it seems that I have one arm stronger than the other and I relied on the grounds to balance this inequality..) so what do you think about it?
2) For the DL, everybody seems use to most weight on it (compare to SQ or BP), but for me its the opposite I tried to perform it as in the video of Johnnie Jackson, but while doing so the coach told me to start much lower than him and to rely more on the leg, in order to protect my back..., so is it bullshit? should I perform it like here:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/GluteusMaxi...
thanks
Thomas
I just want to say how thankful we should all be to Pavel for him taking the time to answer everyone's questions!
Seriously, I've listened to Pavel's advice for YEARS and gotten incredible results without ever talking to him personally like this.
This is a huge opportunity for those of you who listen to him and act on his advice. And for people asking him if they can mess with the program -- just follow it like he says -- all us top guys trust Pavel's advice!
Later
Caleb
"1)for the press: A big friend of mine, advice me to lift up my foot from the ground when I’m benching, (because it seems that I have one arm stronger than the other and I relied on the grounds to balance this inequality..) so what do you think about it?"
Thomas, don't lift your feet, they need to drive hard into the platform. Add a set or two of 5 of one-arm DB bench presses after your barbell benches.
"2) For the DL, everybody seems use to most weight on it (compare to SQ or BP), but for me its the opposite I tried to perform it as in the video of Johnnie Jackson, but while doing so the coach told me to start much lower than him and to rely more on the leg, in order to protect my back…, so is it bullshit? should I perform it like here:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/GluteusMaxi...
Gray Cook explains why you should not squat your DLs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P02K_-OxwMs
There are many ways to DL, good and bad. Hiring a powerlifter for a couple of sessions would help. Let me know where you live and I might be able to find you one.
Thomas, don’t lift your feet, they need to drive hard into the platform. Add a set or two of 5 of one-arm DB bench presses after your barbell benches.
you mean a DB bench only on my weaker arm right?
Gray cook's video is pretty interesting, I will do my DL tommorow, and see the result.
and I'm living in HongKong at the moment
I teach my readers the benefits of using strength as a way to gain definition...both men as well as women. I use Pavel's methods to help people get the hip "Hollywood Look"...I've been following Pavel for the past 10 years and have a lot of respect for this innovator.
Awesome post buddy!
Rusty
"you mean a DB bench only on my weaker arm right?"
Yes, Thomas.
"Pavel - Your Beyond Bodybuilding book changed the way I looked at weights forever. Thank you for the great article…"
Thank you, David!
Good DL feels good, but I'm wondering, why only one DL per week?
thanks again
Thanks again!
S.O.
"thank you pavel, with the good way of making DL, I went from 38 to 60 kg, amazing how just changing the way you lift up change the amount of weigth you take. Good DL feels good, but I’m wondering, why only one DL per week?"
Thomas, aim to build up to 2-2.5 times your bodyweight eventually (more if you decide to powerlift).
The deadlift takes a lot out of you and many coaches believe once a week hits the spot.
"Going on 8 weeks and doing great! So far I’ve increased all of my lifts by 80 lbs by increasing 10 lbs each week (when 5×5 was acheived)! Following the plan to the letter is definitely a must! I’ve been following the five day schedule, by the way, with a couple weeks modified to the four day schedule due to time constraints."
Great work, Starting Off! A lesson to all, comrades. If instead of constantly changing your mind and your routines you found one tested simple program you would be getting somwhere.
I found this article recently and was impressed by what you wrote. I investigated more about you(don't worry, I wasn't stalking you) and it lead me to order Beyond Bodybuilding and PTP. I LOVED them. I feel it's an honor to have you personally answer our questions. Thanks.
Before I ask my questions I would like to give you some info about myself to help you acurately answer my question.
I compete in submission wrestling and I am a newbie RAW powerlifter(my first meet is in june). I weigh 208 lbs, 5'10 tall and 10% bodyfat. I can Bench 305 lbs, squat 365 lbs and deadlift 455.
My question is, how can I pack on weight to be a bigger heavyweight(I am a small one now) while improving my "BIG 3" lifts without over training with grappling? I figured I would use PTP and cycle it with th BEAR for bulking, however I am confused as how to include the squat in the PTP training. Also, if I could include the squat in my PTP training and cycle it with kettlebells, would it work? Can you build mass with kettlebells?
Thanks in advance for taking time to anwer my question.
I also wanted to know what the best way to do more pull ups? I can do 20 strict ones. I want to do 30. Should I do latters every other day or do 5 pullups when ever I pass my pullup bar in the house?
Also the numbers on my 3 powerlifts might look weak for my size, but I am new to the big 3 and these numbers were based off of strict powerlifting form. I am strong, I just need to translate it to the big 3. I think my bench and DL are my strengths, so I was wandering if a push pull meet would suit me best and then I could just stick to DL and bench using your origional PTP program?
Are these too many goals to have at once? I just want to be a well rounded athlete and compete in the two sports I most enjoy, submission wrestling and powerlifting.
Sorry for so many questions, but you are the authority on strength in my book and I know you will be able to at least give me some insight on how I can begin my journy in the strength world.
Also, any recommendation for squatting unassisted, it can be quite daunting to up your poundage and not be sure if you'll make it (I'm not wanting to train Zercher squat)
I have mixed opinions of Crossfit. I was exposed to CF first when training in BJJ and went through perhaps a dozen sessions in different facilities over several years. I think there is value in sustaining strength at higher heart rates, but I think the mixing and matching done so often in CF can be dangerous -- i.e. going from ergometer to muscle ups to heavy back squats. Reps are also performed much too fast, and racing other trainees to do the most reps in a given time period breeds bad form.
It can get you in fantastic shape... if it doesn't injure you. I know dozens of well-trained athletes who have abandoned CF after multiple injuries.
I'd rather just choose a methodology that is highly unlikely to injure me. If you're getting twice the results from CF than anything else but get a significant injury (shoulder in particular) every 6 months, it is a training program that will do more harm than good, IMHO. I don't see any problem with separating strength training from endurance training and then getting sport-specific conditioning by practicing your sport.
Hope that helps,
Tim
Submission wrestling and PL are incompatible. You may practice some DLs and BPs but for lower than 5x5 volume. Otherwise you will gain weight and get stiff.
"Grease the groove" to improve your pullups. The method is in my book 'The Naked Warrior' (http://www.dragondoor.com/b28.html). You may also find articles about it on the web.
"Pavel, what is the best method of stretching? that has been the only thing I’m not too sure if I’m doing properly
Also, any recommendation for squatting unassisted, it can be quite daunting to up your poundage and not be sure if you’ll make it (I’m not wanting to train Zercher squat)"
Alexander, why do you stretch? Your goals affect the choice of the method.
Squat in a power rack with the pins ready to catch you.
If I would like to do your bear program from PTP, will that make me stronger or just bigger? I want both strength and size. Is the 5x5 more suitable for these goals?
I also want to do your ETK programs for cardio. Is it ok to do kettlebell for size, or is it just something I can cycle with my strength/bulking programs to keep heart-healthy?
The reason I ask about size with kettlebells is because I saw a pro powerlifter talk about training with you and kettlebells online, and he said it added mass to his shoulders and traps. That's cool because kettlebells are so fun! They give you explosiveness, endurance, strength, and flexiblity. Most people say kettlebells are only for getting skinny.
"If I would like to do your bear program from PTP, will that make me stronger or just bigger? I want both strength and size. Is the 5×5 more suitable for these goals?"
Dave, start with 5x5, later move up to the Bear.
"I also want to do your ETK programs for cardio. Is it ok to do kettlebell for size, or is it just something I can cycle with my strength/bulking programs to keep heart-healthy?"
Kettlebells are very effective for adding size but you need to pick the appropriate training method. We are about to release my new book 'Return of the Kettlebell' which is about strength and muscle building with KBs.
"The reason I ask about size with kettlebells is because I saw a pro powerlifter talk about training with you and kettlebells online, and he said it added mass to his shoulders and traps. That’s cool because kettlebells are so fun! They give you explosiveness, endurance, strength, and flexiblity."
Correct, if you know how to train. Donnie Thompson, RKC, who holds the highest powerlifting total (the sum of the squat, bench, and dealdift) has added 26 pounds of muscle and 100 pounds to his bench with KB. Marc Bartley, RKC, the total world record holder in the 275 pound class, has added 44 pounds to his bench with KBs.
"Most people say kettlebells are only for getting skinny."
They work for that too. There are many ways to use kettlebells.
That is excellent news about the new book "Return of the Kettlebell"!!!
I can't wait to get it. When does it come out? If it will not be out for a while, can I order information on how to train like this from you so I can get started now and buy some kettlebells? Just let me know how.
Can I do this program for two weeks then do kettlebells for two weeks and alternate like that as long as there is cycling done in both? I like the barbell and the kettlebells.
I am familiar with many 5x5 programs and I have been on one much like this for a while(I enjoy soviet programs). I noticed you told Big Dave to do 5x5 then move to the BEAR. Why, is the bear more advanced? I have your PTP book and I have never tried the BEAR, but I would like to. Since I have done 5x5, what can I expect from the BEAR?
"That is excellent news about the new book “Return of the Kettlebell”!!!
I can’t wait to get it. When does it come out? If it will not be out for a while, can I order information on how to train like this from you so I can get started now and buy some kettlebells? Just let me know how."
Dave, “Return of the Kettlebell" will be out in March or April. It is not for beginners but for those who have completed the Rite of Passage from "Enter the Kettlebell!"
"Can I do this program for two weeks then do kettlebells for two weeks and alternate like that as long as there is cycling done in both? I like the barbell and the kettlebells."
Mark, eventually—perhaps. The cycling will have to be different. For now stick with one or the other.
"I am familiar with many 5×5 programs and I have been on one much like this for a while(I enjoy soviet programs). I noticed you told Big Dave to do 5×5 then move to the BEAR. Why, is the bear more advanced? I have your PTP book and I have never tried the BEAR, but I would like to. Since I have done 5×5, what can I expect from the BEAR?"
Spencer, the Bear has more volume and 5x5 is a logical stepping stone.
In your book Power to the People you state that when on the BEAR program that "because of increased work load you may have to reduce training frequency... but not too much." How many days do I train durring the BEAR? Do I do the press and DL same day or not? It does not specify that in your book.
I can't wait to buy your new book Return of the Kettlebell! When I was training with your ETK program I was able to loose 20 lbs of fat and gain 10 lbs of muscle, thanks!
By the way this 80/20 powerlifting was a great article! But I wouldn't expect any less from you, congratulations!
On this program would I be able to lose fat while building muscle mass, or would a 3X5 program with additional kettlebells be a more appropriate way to do that?
"In your book Power to the People you state that when on the BEAR program that “because of increased work load you may have to reduce training frequency… but not too much.” How many days do I train durring the BEAR? Do I do the press and DL same day or not? It does not specify that in your book."
Scott, try benching twice a week and deadlifting once.
"I can’t wait to buy your new book Return of the Kettlebell! When I was training with your ETK program I was able to loose 20 lbs of fat and gain 10 lbs of muscle, thanks!"
Thank you for your kind words! Please review the book on http://www.dragondoor.com/b33.html.
"By the way this 80/20 powerlifting was a great article! But I wouldn’t expect any less from you, congratulations!"
Thank you!
"On this program would I be able to lose fat while building muscle mass, or would a 3X5 program with additional kettlebells be a more appropriate way to do that?"
Samuel, you might lose some fat but it is not the focus on the program. Try this: stay on the 5x5 plan for 12 weeks, then focus on fat loss for 12 weeks, then go back to 5x5.
In your book Power to the People you state that when on the bear program that “because of increased work load you may have to reduce training frequency… but not too much.” How many days do I train durring the bear? Do I do the press and DL same day or not? It does not specify that in your book.
I took a look at this article when it was first posted. I had been on a gym 'hiatus' for far too long due to a knee injury and then just plain slackness. I've always been quick to gain and lose weight going from 155 to195 lbs. and back to 155 in just over a year (running, weightlifting, traveling)
I had only gotten back into a typical routine a couple of months before I read this article and decided to try it out. Now, obviously, quick gains are to be had in the short term for anyone sticking to a routine (in my experience) but I have seen the best gains in strength and physique that I have ever seen while using this plan.
I will be posting on my own site about my experience after my 6 month mark is reached. I initially planned on trying to get my 1 RM to 225 lbs. from 115 lbs. in a year but since I am already gaining so quickly on this - I expect I'll reach that within 6 months. My Dead Lift, which I had never really given the time of day, has gone from 185 lbs to 250 lbs. and my squat from 165 lbs. to 250 lbs. This is all in 7 weeks. Now, I don't know if these are great gains or not, I'm not employing a trainer and I'm not taking any supplements excepting a protein shake after my workout. I generally try to stick to Tim's lifestyle diet, and have done for the most part for the past year.
For the duration of this exercise regimen I have stayed around 190 lbs. and have only seen great gains in strength and looks; and am just stoked to get to it everyday.
Thanks to both of you for the article and the great insights into strength training, lifestyle and for pushing yourself to be better everyday.
Since your ptp program is lower daily volume, can i do it in the morning and then do kettlebells in the afternoon?
I no longer practice another sport so I don't think I will be over-training. do you?
I use to box and got great results with ptp, I know I couldn't do ptp and kettlebells when boxing, but now can i do dettlebells and ptp together , seperate times of the day?
Thanks for answering our questions. By the way, I am American-born RUSSIAN! Power to you!
"Since your 'Power to to the People!' program is lower daily volume, can i do it in the morning and then do kettlebells in the afternoon? I no longer practice another sport so I don’t think I will be over-training. do you? I use to box and got great results with ptp, I know I couldn’t do ptp and kettlebells when boxing, but now can i do dettlebells and ptp together , seperate times of the day?"
Dmitri, simply add two sets of DLs to your KB practice twice a week and do another 2-3 days of KBs only. Power to you!
Thanks for the info on how to do the bear program. Will the bear make me stronger as well as bigger, or is it primarily a hypertrophy program?
"Thanks for the info on how to do the bear program. Will the bear make me stronger as well as bigger, or is it primarily a hypertrophy program?"
Scott, both. It is a logical progression after 5x5.
I am going to do as Faleev suggests and compete soon. The x 1.2 way to get the one rep max is accurate for me, though I use 1.25.
But I am wondering how to figure out what weight to use when moving from 5x5 to 4x4 to 3x3 and also exactly how long I might best do each. Can somebody help with a formula, suggestion, either, or both? I am a novice and would appreciate the kindness.
"I have been making great progress with this program, though I got sick and that slowed things down.
I am going to do as Faleev suggests and compete soon. The x 1.2 way to get the one rep max is accurate for me, though I use 1.25.
But I am wondering how to figure out what weight to use when moving from 5×5 to 4×4 to 3×3 and also exactly how long I might best do each. Can somebody help with a formula, suggestion, either, or both? I am a novice and would appreciate the kindness."
Dr. Danny, let me know your 5x5 PR and your 1RM and the date of the meet and I will map it out for you.
any friends in hongkong to show me the proper way to squat/bench/DL.
(of course I look at some video, and ask bodybuilder here, but it would be better to be corrected in live)
anyway
here are my result:
squat. 72.5kg
deadlift 75 kg
press (switched to the guided one in order to build muscle before coming back to the free weight, and because people here don't understand what a spotter is...) 62.5kg
I saw that you (pavel) made a dvd about streching for those different exercice, is it possible to buy it and to download it on a website (don't really want to pay double price to send it to HK^^)?
thank you
"any friends in hongkong to show me the proper way to squat/bench/DL.
(of course I look at some video, and ask bodybuilder here, but it would be better to be corrected in live)
here are my result:
squat. 72.5kg
deadlift 75 kg
press (switched to the guided one in order to build muscle before coming back to the free weight, and because people here don’t understand what a spotter is…) 62.5kg
I saw that you (pavel) made a dvd about streching for those different exercice, is it possible to buy it and to download it on a website (don’t really want to pay double price to send it to HK^^)?"
Thomas, sorry, I don't know anyone in Hong Kong.
Don'y use a machine for the bench press. Press alone inside a power rack.
I am not a techie and I am not sure whether 'Strength Stretching' is available for downloading. Please ask Dennis Armstrong, support@dragondoor.com.
You messaged me and asked that I let you know my 5×5 PR and my 1RM and the date of the meet and I will map it out for you.
My 5x5 pr is as follows:
Squat: 95 (will go up ten maybe on my light day today and proceed)
Bench: 115 (will go up ten maybe on my light day Friday)
Deadlift: 170 sumo
One rep max would be x 1.25 so:
Squat 118.75
Bench 143.75
Deadlift 212.5
This adds up to a total that isn't far from 500, which I am pretty pleased with considering I weigh around 125 now and have been using this program since January with time off for being sick a little.
The president of the federation that I am soon to be affiliated with lives within driving distance, so I will be listening to his advice also. Bench shirts, etc. are legal, so that might be a factor, though I have been training raw and am not sure how.
The meet is on May 3rd.
My email address is doctordanny337@yahoo.com should you wish to take this offblog. I I appreciate the kindness, and I do want to let you know that I think of you as a class act now even more than ever.
SQ BP DL
5x5:
1 90 105 165
2 95 110 175
3 100 115 185
4 105 120 195
5 115 125 205
3x3:
6 125 135 215
2x2
7 135 145 225
Don't forget to eat a loy.
Do NOT use supporting gear. Get strong first, then decide whether it is worth it. Using bench shirts, squat suits, etc. too early in one's strength career prevents you from learning how to get tight under the bar and leads to other problems.
White lights!
Thank you for giving us this program and taking the time to answer questions.
I know that techniques like supramaximal holds can increase strength. Would there be room for such techniques in this program? Also, could one make further gains by integrating twice a day training? Thank you!
"I know that techniques like supramaximal holds can increase strength. Would there be room for such techniques in this program? Also, could one make further gains by integrating twice a day training? Thank you!"
Brian, there is no room for twice a day training on this plan. You could do some overloads, e.g. walking out a 120% SQ, when you are peaking with 3x3 or 2x2.
Don't overcomplicate.
I can't say thanks enough for your great article and generous attention you've been giving to this blog for MONTHS! I've already enjoyed a few of your products as well, and recommend them to anyone and everyone. I've been on the program for almost three months now, and have added around 100 lbs to each of my lifts as well as gaining significant muscle mass and definition (note that I'm somewhat of a beginner to strength training, but not sports, cardio training, or good ol' hard work). I'm very happy with the results, and I haven't even maxxed out yet!
A couple questions have been on my mind lately:
1: How long is too long to wait between sets?
The article states, "Top power dogs take longer; 30 min. is not unheard of." I have noticed that sometimes I need more than 5 minutes to feel ready to go on to the next set. if 30 minutes is not unheard of, as stated in the article, what is the maximum wait time allowed before it becomes too long and interferes with the training plan? (i.e. waiting 18 hours would be way too long, but what about one or two hours? What about 4 or 5 hours, breaking up the sets between lunchtime and after work?).
2: Lifts are getting noticably more draining and less enjoyable - is this normal or does it mean something?
The lifts are getting harder and less comfortable as I advance in weight. The last two deadlifts were hard to get the nerve up to actually lift - I felt like I didn't have the energy or will to do it even though I got all 5 sets both times (I know it sounds stupid, but when this 'feeling' becomes stronger than the will to continue the program it could be a problem). I'm not suffereing from any specific pain or ache (actually other than expected muscle fatigue I've felt great), but the lifts have just become less enjoyable and feel more like 'work.' I'm not trying to complain, but I feel that this may be my body's way of telling me something important - which is the reason I'm bringing it up. Any thoughts? - Below are my 5x5 numbers since they may pertain to this issue. Also, in case it may bear on a solution: For 1.5 weeks I've been doing the 'Enter the Kettlebell' program minimum in addition to lifting, but the issue in question has been gradually increasing for the last 4-5 weeks or so.
Beginning Numbers (Week of December 25, 2008):
Bodyweight/Height: 200 lbs/5'11"
Squat: 125 lbs
Bench: 95 lbs
DL: 165
Current Numbers (Just got all 5 sets in each lift, Week of March 12, 2009):
Bodyweight/Height: 214 lbs/5'11"
Squat: 235
Bench: 175
DL: 285
Thanks again for all of your help!!
Sincerely,
S.O.
"1: How long is too long to wait between sets?"
As long as you want. My "Grease the Groove" plan from 'The Naked Warrior' calls for sets throughout the day. For practical reasons 5-10min.
"2: Lifts are getting noticably more draining and less enjoyable - is this normal or does it mean something?"
It means you are getting stronger and digging deeper. When you barely make your sets, go back to lighter weights ('recycle') and build up again.
Hold the course, Starting Off, you are doing very well.
Thanks again for your advice and support! Doing some reading on my own lead me to believe I should take a week off from lifting, but recycling sounds like a better way to recover and work past the tough spots. I may also space my 5 sets throughout the day since my gym is across the street from my office (I'm lucky :)). Should recycling be done with all lifts at the same time or just the lift that's getting overwhelming? Would a good drop be 20 lbs?
Thanks, Pavel!!!
S.O.
I'll follow your prescription and let you know how it turns out. I'm actually looking forward to it - not to the break mind you, but to coming back to lifting and enjoying it more again :). I remember feeling great for most of the lifting time except the very end, with higher energy levels and a general feeling of power at all times :).
Thanks 1,000,000!!!! :)
S.O.
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Hi Pavel,
Big respect for your work and Im very happy to find you here, thank you and wish you all the best.
Thanks to your books and articles i got introduced to kettlebells and right now i feel that i cant live without them. When i was child we had 16kg giria in Russia but i was too small to even think about using it. Im very happy and love them even though my wrists have dark red spots from constant hits of kb but its OK i like it.
I discovered similar program from powerlifting.ru 2 weeks ago and was on it since then. But I trying to use kettlebells between gym days. Doing swings and snatches.
Just wanted to share this.
I can't believe you still take time to reply to posts here. Thanks!
I am having a short of a sticking point early in the program. I started several weeks ago and although I haven't been able to life exactly on the schedule, I haven't missed many workouts. However, unlike people who have been posting here, I seem to be stuck at a particular weight about 20 pounds above where I started(I started pretty conservatively). Every week, I can make the first set and the second set starts getting really tough and it's down-hill from there on. However, I have been seeing some muscle mass gain and some fat loss, so I am sticking with it. I don't understand what is going on. Am I supposed to cycle back to a lower weight so quickly?
Again, thanks a lot for taking time to answer questions. I am 5'10, weigh roughly 140lbs, I have never had a consistent workout schedule. The max I've benched for 5 reps comfortably was 135lbs, deads were 165lbs a year ago.
Currently, I wait 5 mins between sets.
125lbs on Bench, 135 on Squat and 145lbs on Deads. I hadn't squatted prior to starting this program. I have been gaining some muscle and losing some fat, but I would really like to see better strength gains. I am tempted to switch to the PTP workout, but I think I would like to see some mass gains.
"I am 5?10, weigh roughly 140lbs, I have never had a consistent workout schedule. The max I’ve benched for 5 reps comfortably was 135lbs, deads were 165lbs a year ago.Currently, I wait 5 mins between sets. 125lbs on Bench, 135 on Squat and 145lbs on Deads. I hadn’t squatted prior to starting this program. I have been gaining some muscle and losing some fat, but I would really like to see better strength gains. I am tempted to switch to the PTP workout, but I think I would like to see some mass gains."
John, you just need to get more aggressive. Put your mind to it.
I'm really drawn to the 5x5 routine because of its simplicity and efficiency. There are just a few things I would appreciate you clearing up:
The first is the lack of variety that was addressed in the article. If you are doing the same 3 exercises each workout, then doesn't your body adapt to that range of motion so that over time your results won't be as significant? That's the general reason, I think, why people stress variety in exercises.
Also, if you depend on those 3 exercises for training secondary muscles, then won't you're pecs, triceps, hamstrings and lower back develop disproportionately to your calves, biceps, abbs?
This last point is more particular to me. I'm a tall guy (6, 5) and struggle with dead lift. Is there an easier variation I could use to work up to a regular dead lift?
Any thoughts you have I'd greatly appreciate.
Thanks
Due to the phenomenon of irradiation (explained in my book 'Power to the People!') when the weights are heavy enough all the muscles get worked. Few powerlifters do non-sense like curls, yet they all have huge pipes. Once you work up to 400 in the SQ and DL, your abs will work harder than they ever have in "ab exercises". A calf concession is reasonable. Throw in a set or two after squats. Or, if size is not your goal, just jump rope.
Pull sumo.
then do you think when starting out it makes sense to add a few supplements for secondary muscle groups. While the guys squatting 400 are getting all the groups worked, if you're only lifting 150, would some additional core work be beneficial rather than detrimental?
Anyway, I want to say thank you very much and tell you that you are one of the only voices in the iron game that I have come to trust (almost) completely. I always keep a bit of healthy skepticism on hand for practical purposes.
I have two questions about the 80/20 set up:
1) Will the Power To The People system of working only 1 or 2 sets more often work equally to the 5x5? In other words, Mon/Wed/Fri- BP 1x5, SQ 1x5, DL 1x5. It seems like this would be a faster progression and help with the GTG system. Also, since PL meets consist of performing these lifts on the same day wouldn't it help to train that way?
2) What are your thoughts on mixing in some conditioning (15-25 mins) after each lifting sessions. I have decided that powerlifting is the way to go for me, and hope to compete by the end of the year, but I gain fat easily and don't want to sacrifice appearance entirely. Is it necessary to put strength training on hold when it's time to cut the fat? Sorry, slipped a third question in on you.
I apologize for making this so long, but it's a real honor to have direct access to your advice, and I greatly value it. Thanks for your time and all that you've done for us "iron heads". Na zdrovyeh!
There are many ways of effectively spread the volume over a week. If neural adaptations are what you are after, doing less more often is better (PTP). If you want hypertrophy, it is better to get smoked less often (5x5, even 10-20x5). If you are not obsessed with either putting on weight or not putting it on, alternating the two works well. Not more frequently than 12 weeks though.
brilliant
I've been doing 15-20 min of cardio directly after my lifting for a while with good success (keeping fat in check and feeling good). Usually swimming, recumbent bike, or kettlebell cardio.
S.O.