The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss - Latest Comments in No Schedules, No Meetings—Enter Best Buy’s ROWE - Part 2

Re: No Schedules, No Meetings—Enter Best Buy’s ROWE - Part 2

Uno — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 00:30:29 -0000

Some comments.

1. ROWE = Sales. Sales people have been living in a "results-only" world forever. That is why most career sales people would never do anything else. Sales people can do whatever they like, whenever they like, as long as they are bringing in $$.

2. ROWE = Accountability. In a results driven position you must take 100% accountability for you work and results. This is very difficult for many managers and employees so they prefer "responsibility" over "accountability".

3 Acountability vs. Responsibility. The difference between these 2 words has been discussed in management for over 100 years. This stuff is not new. Under capitalism, ROWE is not always the optimum way to maximize shareholder value. Under communism, ROWE makes more sense.

Just a thought - How much do you want to bet that Tim does not pratice ROWE with his low paid workers in India?

Just a thought - Tim pays little of no US taxes for these workers, they have no health care, they take jobs away from Americans and local school budgets here in America suffer while Tim "hangs" in Japan on the US taxpayer's dime.

I enjoy TIm's blog, but there are 2 sides to every coin. We are enamoured by Tim's exploits because his "exploits" new communications technolgoy for his own gain and bypassed established social systems, gaining great advantages, like US taxes. - Tim is just a classic, talented capitalist.

Tim "Oil Man" Ferris has learned to leverage this new "free & untaxed" global captial, so that he gets excess returns and does not have to work as much as the rest of us.

Nothing wrong with it, but it is not a new concept, trust me.

Re: No Schedules, No Meetings—Enter Best Buy’s ROWE - Part 2

Peter Braswell — Wed, 08 Oct 2008 14:01:40 -0000

Tim,
Great post! I work at Cisco. Since we're severely global, most of us work from home. The "sludge" as mentioned in the article still tends to creep in sometimes. "I see you weren't on IM until after 10am, must be nice!". Regarding meetings, unfortunately they're still alive and well, even as a Teleworker. Funny thing I've noticed: If a meeting is scheduled for 1 hour, it goes 1 hour. If it's scheduled for 1.5 hours, guess what? It's insane! I've been trying to put the book into practice and so far, so good.

Re: No Schedules, No Meetings—Enter Best Buy’s ROWE - Part 2

phraedus — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 20:50:24 -0000

This article does not at any time mention ethics or values, and I was drawing attention to that.

My point to clarify is that the principles of doing whatever it takes are dangerous. Success, shouldn't come at the cost of ethics, which is an unmeasurable value, and according to the article, should be ignored

Working in the way people want is a different matter altogether.

I'm not saying that Enron and Rowe are related. Enron did exactly as you said, whatever it took to get the results. If Enron was a ROWE, then it would have been far worse.

Re: No Schedules, No Meetings—Enter Best Buy’s ROWE - Part 2

Watchdoit.com — Mon, 02 Jun 2008 19:42:28 -0000

I tried the advice you said in your book about asking your boss to allow you to work from home and it worked. He only gave me Fridays, but tomorrow I will ask him to give me Tuesdays and Wednesdays off. We will see!!!
Any advice?

Re: No Schedules, No Meetings—Enter Best Buy’s ROWE - Part 2

Duff McDuffee — Fri, 30 May 2008 14:21:40 -0000

God I love when common sense finally makes it's way into business. :)

In some cases, greater results are met by core hours, regular meetings, etc. But so often hours and meetings are mindlessly followed.

Re: No Schedules, No Meetings—Enter Best Buy’s ROWE - Part 2

Davidwp — Thu, 29 May 2008 05:18:45 -0000

I too have trained my boss to work ROWE with me. Hustling to meet his deliverables has benefited only him so far. I'm close to 4 hours/week, but in effect, my income has been reduced.

Any models or ideas on how to correctly quantify a cost/benefits proposal for the boss to pay me more per deliverable?

Re: No Schedules, No Meetings—Enter Best Buy’s ROWE - Part 2

Lorna — Wed, 28 May 2008 13:49:54 -0000

Re getting on Colbert....

I work for the Dept of Defense and I keep pitching 4HWW to my bureaucrat bosses and get nothing but excuses, when I see how easily they could work and how much more effective we could be. How about how you'd apply 4HWW to the Department of Defense? Or Government jobs in general? (or better yet, the next President's 4HWW??? I think that one could actually work very well for you and be both funny and on-target, plus have a political angle.)

Lorna

Re: No Schedules, No Meetings—Enter Best Buy’s ROWE - Part 2

Charlie Neese — Wed, 28 May 2008 08:14:23 -0000

Interesting concept. Like you said Tim, sure does seem to be based on common sense. It's funny how the further away from common sense we get as a society, the more it seems revolutionary...

Re: No Schedules, No Meetings—Enter Best Buy’s ROWE - Part 2

Magalhaes — Mon, 26 May 2008 15:55:38 -0000

A long, long time ago, there was a book named "The Peter Principle". It said that as long as you did ok, you'd be promoted, until you became an incompetent.

In a way, the boss that throws more and more work at a good worker is going to wear him/her down to incompetence.

As has been said, and is also my personal experience in my quirkish field, good, keen workers will either ask for more to do by themselves, or start thinking about how things are done and how to improve it, or just use their time to live.

Re: No Schedules, No Meetings—Enter Best Buy’s ROWE - Part 2

Allen — Mon, 26 May 2008 13:46:41 -0000

Oh, how I hate billable hours.

Re: No Schedules, No Meetings—Enter Best Buy’s ROWE - Part 2

Krista — Mon, 26 May 2008 11:31:57 -0000

Wow, brand new to this site and found this discussion topic very cool.

I'm in a 6:30-4 job and love the work, not so much the sludge (love the word!). I have to sheepishly admit I have contributed to the toxicity of sludge during my past supervisory experience. It wasn't taught but more so learned. I hate being that way because I hate when it's done to me.

Here are my questions/concerns. I believe that a ROWE is the way to go but it reminds me a lot of commission based jobs.... the more you sell, the more you make- so the more you produce, the more you make?

In engineering, the amount of work for me is based on the work incoming from the client. Some days, I can get my tasks done in one hour while other days, I could work 9 hours with a bathroom break and lunch munch and still go another 27 hours straight. Financially, I would be concerned that my one hour day wouldn't make me enough money to support my one income family. And then how am I supposed to work until it's done when it's never done?

I have lost my productivity with the increase in salary, oddly enough, because as long as I'm here, I must be getting it done, right? Wrong! I have been here 7 years and so the company values my experience and committment to the company - they are no longer so much concerned with productivity. Hence, I've become the slacker which frankly is very boring. BUT, it supports my family well enough that my husband, rather than me, gets to be at home with our toddler.

When there's not much to do at work, I am creative with my time to make it look like I'm working hard. When there's a lot to do, I struggle getting it done because I'm used to slacking during down time. I could be at home with my boys and working when necessary!!

I'm intrigued and mystified. Is ROWE really a future vision for me?!
KR

Re: No Schedules, No Meetings—Enter Best Buy’s ROWE - Part 2

Brian Soule — Sun, 25 May 2008 16:49:08 -0000

Tim,

I remember reading a couple months back about a book on the topic of entrepreneurship, and how it was to be the key factor in the US's ability to stay competitive in an open global economy.

What was the name of that book again?

Brian Soule

###

"The Entrepreneurial Imperative" It's a good read, for sure, though dense at points. Enjoy! -Tim

Re: No Schedules, No Meetings—Enter Best Buy’s ROWE - Part 2

Shawn Frey — Sun, 25 May 2008 11:29:59 -0000

Tim,

Very interesting. My old boss could have used a ROWE and begun a simple trial like you suggest. If she would have maybe I'd still be there. I used to love love my old job of nearly 9 years, however it got to be completely demotivating with those types of comments and BS games that you mentioned. On April 6th 2008 I killed it.

I now work without the traditional "office". I simply have three basic forms I email to my manager weekly. That's it! My time is now spent working directly with customers by phone or in person.

I go to ALL of the kids' softball games as well as coach grade school basketball. My new company is not only going to encourage me to coach again next season, they are going to support the team financially as well so we can participate in more traveling tournaments .

My new employer focuses on results and rewards results. If yours doesn't "let-'em rot" and go find one that does. It took several months of searching and lots of interviews to finally find the right match. In the end I worked with a VA that helped get me in front on the right employer, within 30 days I had my new job.

Results matter, games don't.

If anyone needs some help or in this area from someone who's killed their job and landed the "Perfect 10 JOB" I'd be happy to lend a hand and volunteer my time. For legal reasons at this time the above link to my site is password protected. Just shoot me an email at shawnsue@mac.com. I'll do my best to help you.

Have a good one,
Shawn

Re: No Schedules, No Meetings—Enter Best Buy’s ROWE - Part 2

Paul — Sun, 25 May 2008 09:46:53 -0000

Hey Tim,

I've managed to train my boss and his bosses to allow me to work like this.. basically I only ever show my face in the office to do some paperwork on mondays and fridays, then tuesdays through thursdays I'm out working with clients... between whatever hours I want.. some days I work from 8am to 11am other days I don't start until 2pm and I'll finish at 6pm.. I'm gettng more work done than the other guys in office too.

- paul

Re: No Schedules, No Meetings—Enter Best Buy’s ROWE - Part 2

Celine — Sun, 25 May 2008 04:58:17 -0000

Hey Tim,

Thanks to your book I got to the 9-hour workweek!

I've placed the URL of the blog series I wrote on the "website field" of the comment box. It's basically the story of how I applied your ideas to my situation and got to my 9- hour workweek.

Any plans for a follow up book?

Re: No Schedules, No Meetings—Enter Best Buy’s ROWE - Part 2

Alfred Shek — Sun, 25 May 2008 02:00:01 -0000

The idea of ROWE is really inspiring, as most of the people still follow the same old ways at work, leaves late or working overtime everyday without focus on what they should really need to produce.

Re: No Schedules, No Meetings—Enter Best Buy’s ROWE - Part 2

Avery T. Horton, Jr. — Sun, 25 May 2008 01:31:50 -0000

This is too funny! Back in the 1980's we called it "employee attitude."

Here's what happens...

A person gets their first job and busts their butt for a while but they don't get rewarded for their effort or results. One day the light bulb goes off and they realize it doesn't matter if they bust their butt or sit on it, their pay is the same! That's called EMPLOYEE ATTITUDE. Productivity suffers.

But if you think like a business owner, you know that results equals rewards. And if you are a business owner, you must reward for performance, not longevity. If the new kid produces more than the old timer, then each should earn accordingly.

The simple thing is to FOCUS ON RESULTS. Business is simple. It consists of three parts:

1) Generating revenue

2) Decreasing expenses

3) Filling out government forms.

If you are not doing at least one of those three then you are NOT engaged in the business of business. Every activity should fall under one of those categories.

Re: No Schedules, No Meetings—Enter Best Buy’s ROWE - Part 2

Nuruddin Abjani — Sat, 24 May 2008 20:28:21 -0000

Thanks for sharing this wonderful idea! I wonder why more and more companies are not adopting ROWE? Looks like a win-win for everyone..I will try with some of it in my organization for sure, like removing 'sludge' and see how it works. If all goes well, and i believe it will, we will get on to the next level. Thanks!

Re: No Schedules, No Meetings—Enter Best Buy’s ROWE - Part 2

Shelly Levine — Sat, 24 May 2008 14:58:54 -0000

Book Awesome.

Posts Awesome.

Progressive Thinking Awesome.

The only thing that is challenging about this is the timeframe issue. It would be difficult if you were outsourcing your products and a customer needed help on their schedule. What if they were not available to take the call today and you missed the order until you log in tomorrow or next week? What if a customer ordered a product and the shipping company completed the day and went through the weekend. The customer needed the product on Monday. I guess if you had a que that was monitered etc. Just curious if anyone had a creative solution.

Re: No Schedules, No Meetings—Enter Best Buy’s ROWE - Part 2

Jesse Hines — Sat, 24 May 2008 14:08:17 -0000

"If you can’t measure or evaluate the work in some way, you shouldn’t be doing it."

I think that sums up the essence of ROWE--how much more productive would we all be if we vigorously and rigorously applied that test to whatever "work" we were about to do?

Re: No Schedules, No Meetings—Enter Best Buy’s ROWE - Part 2

deanruns — Sat, 24 May 2008 12:31:11 -0000

I like the clock eye pic

Re: No Schedules, No Meetings—Enter Best Buy’s ROWE - Part 2

Josh — Sat, 24 May 2008 08:51:20 -0000

Tim,

This takes lying down in a public place to a new level. I know you enjoy social experiments have a look at this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Josh

###

Josh, I'd heard about this but never saw it. AWESOME. I think that will inspire all sorts of creative troublemaking. Fun!

Thanks!

Tim

Re: No Schedules, No Meetings—Enter Best Buy’s ROWE - Part 2

Taiyin — Sat, 24 May 2008 00:35:55 -0000

Michael Long wrote: "And if you’re getting “your” work done with time to spare, then why aren’t you doing more work? Or pitching in and helping someone else? And if you finished project “A” before it was due, why aren’t you starting project “B”?"

I think this is my challenge with the applicability of ROWE in the places I have worked. Being in IT, I have never worked in anything but a mobile work environment -- work from home, work from the coffee shop, work from the office. Whatever. Just get done what needs to be done. (And, like many good IT geeks, when the Star Wars prequels and the Matrix sequels came out, several of us took a long lunch to see them in the middle of the day together. All very SOP.)

But in a project environment, with a backlog list of over 150 projects waiting to be tackled, the fact is that I don't underestimate the expectation my employer has on the number of hours per week they are requesting in exchange for a very comfortable salary. And if my current workload leaves me with more bandwidth, there really IS more that needs to be done and is just awaiting my attention.

So, I guess, while I appreciate the value of this in many more traditionally structured office environments, I'm not sure I understand where some of the organizational models I have more experience in would really find a significant bang for the buck.

Re: No Schedules, No Meetings—Enter Best Buy’s ROWE - Part 2

Jose Castro-Frenzel — Sat, 24 May 2008 00:30:57 -0000

Ha Ha, I love this blog. Hey Tim, quick question I think many may also have. How do you setup a YHOO Buzz account. I did some research and it seems like its not available to the public.

Cheers

Jose

Re: No Schedules, No Meetings—Enter Best Buy’s ROWE - Part 2

Joe Frost — Fri, 23 May 2008 23:29:43 -0000

This is interesting. We ran our mortgage company this way for the first several years in business. Everyone was an independent contractor. The results were loan originations and closings. And we had no time requirements and ultimately all associates compensation was also tied to the result as a commission.

Then, a few years later we came up with the "idea" that we needed more control of some of the loan process. So, we hired the loan closers full time, and left loan originators flex time. We adjusted compensation as well to be more salary driven versus commission.

What we found was a drastic REDUCTION in productivity directly related to the salaried full time people. The commissioned, flex time production did not vary. However, the teamwork we once had between the originators and loan closers went away because we created 2 different types of workers. Also, we noted that customer service levels decreased.

We ultimately scrapped the full time salaried position and changed everyone back to independent contractors. It has resulted in increased productivity and teamwork with a focus on closing loans, not showing up to work.

I think it would be hard to make the results so clear in many organizations that you could just go ROWE; but if you can create simple, clear result requirements, then our experience shows it works.

I'm never hiring an employee again. Everyone is an independent contractor and owner of their own business in my eyes. The value they bring to me and the organization is then aligned with their compensation. This incents what we want, results and no management headaches.