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When I was practicing as an attorney in a big law firm, I was actually penalized for being efficient. You see, the more hours you billed, the bigger the bonus (up to $65K plus) -- and since I got my work done between 7 am and 4 pm just 5 days per week, I never got the bonus. Didn't matter how many briefs I wrote, who many cases I won, etc. b/c it's all about how many hours got billed to the client. Amazing!
I'm so proud of Best Buy for adopting this policy -- as it spreads, it will really change the world.
Elizabeth
It seems for me that much or most of the sludge comes from inside - probably remnants of public schooling, the old work mindset, and Jewish-like mother syndrome.
That term, sludge, is a great way of lumping (slushing?) together all of the outdated views and philosophies toward work.
The problem with incorporating ROWE is that normally its a managerial decision process with the top normally being from the older generation. No matter if the process is completely logical or has stats to back it up, it's seems to be a mental/ habit thing that prevents the change. I think as younger managers move to positions of power the social change can happen. I mentioned this process to an older person who holds a management position and I'm not generalizing about older people it's just seems to be more common and their response was it would be hard to monitor, employees would slack, hard to build morale, all arguments etc which I think are flawed and can be tested I guess he feels he could have better control of employees with the current practices. It's harder to change than just be the same, maybe the key is just more time for more results to show, possibly a how to book or consultants who specialize in the field but IMO most important and that this project has to have metrics so the non believers can see the hard results for themselves. I have managed to convince my manager for time off for employees every fortnight so they can think about the process of the work they do and not about the work itself which is great but I guess it’s one step at a time.
OT, Very disappointed we couldn't catch up for a drink while you were in Aus, you have to come the Gold Coast next time your in town! Or I'll possibly see you while I'm traveling next year! Take care
Poe
A lot of "traditions" don't make sense if you simply think about them. After all, "tradition" just means "it's been done this way for a long time".
I have a similar term, "slop", to describe waste in work (and play). I like to say: "CHOP THE SLOP!"
I can't wait to read the Ladies' book. Thanks Tim!
Hugs,
Jen
This is plainly wrong. There are plenty of things that are great for business that can't be measured economically. Take being ethical for example.
The real danger to this article, and the idea of 'doing whatever it takes' means that people might be willing to do things that are abhorent to do the results.
Not measurable, but if you fail in being ethical, it's measurable then.
Enron anyone?
The solution is that people need to know what is expected of them, have clear responsibilities, and accountability for actions, especially to ethics.
Your solution is basically describing a ROWE. “People need to know what is expected of them, have clear responsibilities, and accountability for actions, especially to ethics.”
I bought the book. I've read the book. Rereading it and taking notes. It's very good. Did I miss your parties in Silicon Valley?
I'm still working on an email to get you to be my mentor.
This whole ROWE thing sounds great but is familiar. It reminds me of Morita Psychotherapy. Its a good thing. Do what needs to be done! Thats it and thats the measure of all. What do you think?
Brian
You mean, other than the fact that they're paying your salary? And especially if you're getting a salary. There are plenty of working arrangements, like being paid by the hour, or as a consultant or contractor, that provide for more flexible working arrangements or let you get "your" work done on a per-project basis.
Employers tend to feel that with a salary they're paying you for a certain amount of time. And if you're getting "your" work done with time to spare, then why aren't you doing more work? Or pitching in and helping someone else? And if you finished project "A" before it was due, why aren't you starting project "B"?
After all, being so "efficient" is probably one of the reasons that YOU were hired instead of someone else.
If you can get X amount of work done in a six hour day, then you're going to have a very hard time convincing someone that you can't be doing X*20% in an eight hour day...
Thanks for a great post. The ROWE work style you describe from Best Buy really fits along with the ROWE lifestyle that you describe in your book.
I was just listening to your interview with John Jantsch. Combined with this it is a great reminder of the type of lifestyle you challenge us to consider.
Personally, I feel called to a job that does require me to be at a certain place in some occasions but thankfully gives me a lot of freedom in others. I'm currently sitting in Istanbul, Turkey. I'm working and enjoying life and seeing the world. All at once.
Thanks so much!
I found it ironic that there was a webex ad on the page with the no meeting post.
Thanks for everything.
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LOL... thanks for the comment, Bob. I actually think WebEx (as well as GoToMeeting) are great options for moving from face-time to results-only. I still have con-calls and "meetings" via IM or phone with designers, for example, and these tools are often what I use.
I can see how this would be very, very ironic from the outside looking in, though!
Pura vida,
Tim
The idea behind ROWE is really clever and it all makes sense, but how would an employee be credited for the work and effort he puts in? I live in Norway where salary is normally regulated by working hours. I do not know the usual habbit in the US, is it based on completed projects?
As a PM in a fairly large firm I am very much intriged by the idea, but I do not see how I can put in practice in regard to workdrones and their salary.
As always, thanks for a good read,
Bjorn
This book reminds me of a great book I read about 10 years ago called "Doing It Different" by David Clutterbuck.
It show-cased organisations around the world which operated very 'differently' to their competitiors - more fluid, less structured, focussed on outcomes, not rules and trusted the people to deliver outcomes and work in ways that suit their liefstyles.
These firms were more more proftable, more innovative and had happier people than their competitors.
10 years ago some of this seemed a little "quirky." Today it makes absolute business sense - it makes an impact on the bottom line and reduces staff turnover / attrition.
So even if an organisation is not a "ROWE Organisation" as such, using the step by step guidelines in your book Tim (on trialling, testing etc) an employee can make it happen at an individual level.
Half the time, i think people don't attempt the stuff they want in the work place because we think it's 'not possible' or 'my boss would never agree to that.'
Ressler and Thompson's book shows people it is 'possible' to create a job that fits your desired lifestyle rather than the other way around.
Thanks again for your continued ideas & inspiration!
Sital
A very interesting article. The principle is something I have adhered to personally for some time, although it wasn't until I got into senior management that I could practice it.
A word of caution though. Some roles require people to be available at a certain place at a certain time. Customer service or tech-support spring to mind.
Many organizations also believe in the myth of difference; that is, "it might have worked for Best Buy but it won't work here because we're different, our culture is different, our products are different, etc. etc." It's absurd nonsense, of course, but whether it's nonsense or not isn't relevant. Every organization believes it's different, and anything that goes against the grain of the current business model is bound to be met with resistance.
I want to add here that I'm personally a big believer in ROWE but I also believe that if employees think they can just present a ROWE-style concept to their managers without it being a career-limiting move, I think they're mistaken. This is one of those times where I hope I'm wrong, that organizations will see through their self-created myths about control and adopt an approach that's more effective, more efficient and more productive.
However, there are exceptions that should be noted. My help desk guys are paid to be available during their shifts. That is their result. I'm sure there are other exceptions, but this is not universally applicable.
This is the problem with working in a large corporation. They build up large structures to help run multiple divisions and product lines. They set up systems to help streamline the process and cut costs. They never stop to ask the question "how does this help my customer?" They never thing "how does this make my customer's experience better?"
Unless you have executive buy in, going to ROWE doesn't work in these situations. This is where your advice steps in. You need to get your work out of the office. You become more productive and the company doesn't start to question why they are paying your salary since you cut loose early every day.
This is a good company-- strong ethics, rational management, a diverse client base--but retention and mishiring has been a huge issue. In the two years I worked there I watched at least 20 staff come and go. I believe the company has a tremendous amount to gain by trying new techniques to improve its employee base and productivity, and I'll have another opportunity to talk with my boss more in-depth about ROWE in my exit interview next week.
However, there are some challenges that I see and that my boss has already raised: 1) how to apply this in a service-based setting with clients that expect attention throughout the traditional 9-6pm day; 2) how to maintain employee interaction and "bonding"; 3) how to measure & assess true productivity in an industry where success is not just defined by financial profit, but by long-term relationships and referrals that sometimes take months or years to develop.
It's sounds like Cali & Jody's book will address some of these challenges so I'm looking forward to reading it when it comes out -- in the meantime, if there any resources/articles that would help my discussion next week, I'd love to know more!
Allison
Great post Tim!
"The Inner Ring"
http://www.geocities.com/bigcslewisfan/
I can see how even I can use this method to achieve more results. Since I don't have a boss (other than myself) to tell me what work needs to be done on a given day, I could easily set up clearer goals, things I need to accomplish within a day and a week so that I see certain results.
How would you suggest this applies to someone who is self-employed?
~Cheryl Kaye Tardif, author
Victor, your desk guys example is still in line with a ROWE philosophy. Their result is to be available. ROWE is not necessarily about where you work but that you get the work done. Different jobs will have different ROWEs. In fact, each person makes ROWE their own to fit their unique lifestyle, job role, work style, demands, desires, etc.
On results, you're never going to get the metrics of measuring results 100% correct, get it as good as practical, then review and amend as necessary at set periods.
With ROWE, salary = results delivered, not time spent. Renegotiate the targets and set higher standards if the current targets are being met too easily. After one quarter of realising the team could have done a lot better, raise the goalpost, match it with extra cash, and your company grows at an even faster rate.
I'm sold on the idea.
Incidentally, whilst writing this I got an reminder alert pop up window,asking a question from 4HWW:
Are you inventing things to avoid doing the important?
Well, I guess I was.
Hum, being seen at work or being seen to produce. The difficulty with knowledge workers is measurement can be difficult and therefore the default response is 'they are their desk'. Businesses are talking about innovation but it is hard to measure when most attempts fail and innovation is archived through learning from failure. The answer may lie in employee salary by packaged work jobs i.e. when you have produced this piece of work managing your own time and you get paid when the job is done. BT in the UK have 10,000 directory enquires home workers, who work this way. However it becomes more difficult when packaging innovation. I think the point you pose on your blog is one of the fundamentals changes needed to management. Gary Hamel refers to this as Management 2.0 and why I'm focused in on Enterprise 2.0.
Nick Barker
Brilliant! This makes so much sense it is almost scary. Also explains why some people work circles around coworkers when chained to a desk for a period of time... Extraordinary results are possible when the focus is on results.
I am getting the book this weekend!
Terry
My understanding is this has nothing to do with working less hours for your salary. It's more about letting the individual decide how he/she can best get the required work done. Managment will find out about the person who gets his work done in 30 hours and will assign them more work - that I assure you. The truth is ROWE will probably result in MORE work for the average employee - not less. The benefit is the employee gets to decide how/when to get it done.
If you can get X amount of work done in a six hour day, then you’re going to have a very hard time convincing someone that you can’t be doing X*20% in an eight hour day…
Michael, this is a perfect example of "no good deed goes unpunished" and something that I saw all the time when I was working in Tech Support. The more that you accomplish, the more people will ask of you. I'm not saying that people shouldn't work to their potential, but the problem is that corporations are often striving to wring every last bit of efficiency out of their employees. When they are successful at this, it means the employee is working at their maximum capacity all day long. No wonder that type of employment results in a much higher turnover rate than in a ROWE. Also, it is a strong incentive to slack in order to set your boss's expectations low.
ROWE's value, in my opinion, is that it requires the employer to VERY specifically define employee goals tied to corporate goals.
Tim, thanks for the post about ROWE. It is a great match with 4HWW.
My solution complements the ROWE method mentioned, because it reduces the need for meetings, ability to 'sludge', etc. ROWE could easily be dangerous without these things.
@pani
What do you think about companies being generally reluctant to match higher results with extra cash? The point of business it to make money. Do you think if everybody was being more productive, that a company would reward everyone equally? Ideally yes, practically, they might, if they wanted to retain their employees.
@victor. I would agree, the same principle applies to retail. However, rather than the reward being spending less time at work, there could be other rewards, such as being paid more. This seems to contradict my last comment, companies _should_ pay people more, but will be disinclined to.
This was a recent Twitter status of yours, and I don't use Twitter, so this is the best place for me to reply, I think. (Correct me if I'm wrong, Tim.)
Anyway, I just wanted to say that Colbert sometimes has guests that are not directly involved with current affairs/politics.
I would personally love to see you on the Colbert Report!
Then, a few years later we came up with the "idea" that we needed more control of some of the loan process. So, we hired the loan closers full time, and left loan originators flex time. We adjusted compensation as well to be more salary driven versus commission.
What we found was a drastic REDUCTION in productivity directly related to the salaried full time people. The commissioned, flex time production did not vary. However, the teamwork we once had between the originators and loan closers went away because we created 2 different types of workers. Also, we noted that customer service levels decreased.
We ultimately scrapped the full time salaried position and changed everyone back to independent contractors. It has resulted in increased productivity and teamwork with a focus on closing loans, not showing up to work.
I think it would be hard to make the results so clear in many organizations that you could just go ROWE; but if you can create simple, clear result requirements, then our experience shows it works.
I'm never hiring an employee again. Everyone is an independent contractor and owner of their own business in my eyes. The value they bring to me and the organization is then aligned with their compensation. This incents what we want, results and no management headaches.
Cheers
Jose
I think this is my challenge with the applicability of ROWE in the places I have worked. Being in IT, I have never worked in anything but a mobile work environment -- work from home, work from the coffee shop, work from the office. Whatever. Just get done what needs to be done. (And, like many good IT geeks, when the Star Wars prequels and the Matrix sequels came out, several of us took a long lunch to see them in the middle of the day together. All very SOP.)
But in a project environment, with a backlog list of over 150 projects waiting to be tackled, the fact is that I don't underestimate the expectation my employer has on the number of hours per week they are requesting in exchange for a very comfortable salary. And if my current workload leaves me with more bandwidth, there really IS more that needs to be done and is just awaiting my attention.
So, I guess, while I appreciate the value of this in many more traditionally structured office environments, I'm not sure I understand where some of the organizational models I have more experience in would really find a significant bang for the buck.
This takes lying down in a public place to a new level. I know you enjoy social experiments have a look at this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwMj3PJDxuo
Josh
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Josh, I'd heard about this but never saw it. AWESOME. I think that will inspire all sorts of creative troublemaking. Fun!
Thanks!
Tim
I think that sums up the essence of ROWE--how much more productive would we all be if we vigorously and rigorously applied that test to whatever "work" we were about to do?
Posts Awesome.
Progressive Thinking Awesome.
The only thing that is challenging about this is the timeframe issue. It would be difficult if you were outsourcing your products and a customer needed help on their schedule. What if they were not available to take the call today and you missed the order until you log in tomorrow or next week? What if a customer ordered a product and the shipping company completed the day and went through the weekend. The customer needed the product on Monday. I guess if you had a que that was monitered etc. Just curious if anyone had a creative solution.
Here's what happens...
A person gets their first job and busts their butt for a while but they don't get rewarded for their effort or results. One day the light bulb goes off and they realize it doesn't matter if they bust their butt or sit on it, their pay is the same! That's called EMPLOYEE ATTITUDE. Productivity suffers.
But if you think like a business owner, you know that results equals rewards. And if you are a business owner, you must reward for performance, not longevity. If the new kid produces more than the old timer, then each should earn accordingly.
The simple thing is to FOCUS ON RESULTS. Business is simple. It consists of three parts:
1) Generating revenue
2) Decreasing expenses
3) Filling out government forms.
If you are not doing at least one of those three then you are NOT engaged in the business of business. Every activity should fall under one of those categories.
Thanks to your book I got to the 9-hour workweek!
I've placed the URL of the blog series I wrote on the "website field" of the comment box. It's basically the story of how I applied your ideas to my situation and got to my 9- hour workweek.
Any plans for a follow up book?
I've managed to train my boss and his bosses to allow me to work like this.. basically I only ever show my face in the office to do some paperwork on mondays and fridays, then tuesdays through thursdays I'm out working with clients... between whatever hours I want.. some days I work from 8am to 11am other days I don't start until 2pm and I'll finish at 6pm.. I'm gettng more work done than the other guys in office too.
- paul
Very interesting. My old boss could have used a ROWE and begun a simple trial like you suggest. If she would have maybe I'd still be there. I used to love love my old job of nearly 9 years, however it got to be completely demotivating with those types of comments and BS games that you mentioned. On April 6th 2008 I killed it.
I now work without the traditional "office". I simply have three basic forms I email to my manager weekly. That's it! My time is now spent working directly with customers by phone or in person.
I go to ALL of the kids' softball games as well as coach grade school basketball. My new company is not only going to encourage me to coach again next season, they are going to support the team financially as well so we can participate in more traveling tournaments .
My new employer focuses on results and rewards results. If yours doesn't "let-'em rot" and go find one that does. It took several months of searching and lots of interviews to finally find the right match. In the end I worked with a VA that helped get me in front on the right employer, within 30 days I had my new job.
Results matter, games don't.
If anyone needs some help or in this area from someone who's killed their job and landed the "Perfect 10 JOB" I'd be happy to lend a hand and volunteer my time. For legal reasons at this time the above link to my site is password protected. Just shoot me an email at shawnsue@mac.com. I'll do my best to help you.
Have a good one,
Shawn
I remember reading a couple months back about a book on the topic of entrepreneurship, and how it was to be the key factor in the US's ability to stay competitive in an open global economy.
What was the name of that book again?
Brian Soule
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"The Entrepreneurial Imperative" It's a good read, for sure, though dense at points. Enjoy! -Tim
I'm in a 6:30-4 job and love the work, not so much the sludge (love the word!). I have to sheepishly admit I have contributed to the toxicity of sludge during my past supervisory experience. It wasn't taught but more so learned. I hate being that way because I hate when it's done to me.
Here are my questions/concerns. I believe that a ROWE is the way to go but it reminds me a lot of commission based jobs.... the more you sell, the more you make- so the more you produce, the more you make?
In engineering, the amount of work for me is based on the work incoming from the client. Some days, I can get my tasks done in one hour while other days, I could work 9 hours with a bathroom break and lunch munch and still go another 27 hours straight. Financially, I would be concerned that my one hour day wouldn't make me enough money to support my one income family. And then how am I supposed to work until it's done when it's never done?
I have lost my productivity with the increase in salary, oddly enough, because as long as I'm here, I must be getting it done, right? Wrong! I have been here 7 years and so the company values my experience and committment to the company - they are no longer so much concerned with productivity. Hence, I've become the slacker which frankly is very boring. BUT, it supports my family well enough that my husband, rather than me, gets to be at home with our toddler.
When there's not much to do at work, I am creative with my time to make it look like I'm working hard. When there's a lot to do, I struggle getting it done because I'm used to slacking during down time. I could be at home with my boys and working when necessary!!
I'm intrigued and mystified. Is ROWE really a future vision for me?!
KR
In a way, the boss that throws more and more work at a good worker is going to wear him/her down to incompetence.
As has been said, and is also my personal experience in my quirkish field, good, keen workers will either ask for more to do by themselves, or start thinking about how things are done and how to improve it, or just use their time to live.
I work for the Dept of Defense and I keep pitching 4HWW to my bureaucrat bosses and get nothing but excuses, when I see how easily they could work and how much more effective we could be. How about how you'd apply 4HWW to the Department of Defense? Or Government jobs in general? (or better yet, the next President's 4HWW??? I think that one could actually work very well for you and be both funny and on-target, plus have a political angle.)
Lorna
Any models or ideas on how to correctly quantify a cost/benefits proposal for the boss to pay me more per deliverable?
In some cases, greater results are met by core hours, regular meetings, etc. But so often hours and meetings are mindlessly followed.
Any advice?
My point to clarify is that the principles of doing whatever it takes are dangerous. Success, shouldn't come at the cost of ethics, which is an unmeasurable value, and according to the article, should be ignored
Working in the way people want is a different matter altogether.
I'm not saying that Enron and Rowe are related. Enron did exactly as you said, whatever it took to get the results. If Enron was a ROWE, then it would have been far worse.
Great post! I work at Cisco. Since we're severely global, most of us work from home. The "sludge" as mentioned in the article still tends to creep in sometimes. "I see you weren't on IM until after 10am, must be nice!". Regarding meetings, unfortunately they're still alive and well, even as a Teleworker. Funny thing I've noticed: If a meeting is scheduled for 1 hour, it goes 1 hour. If it's scheduled for 1.5 hours, guess what? It's insane! I've been trying to put the book into practice and so far, so good.
1. ROWE = Sales. Sales people have been living in a "results-only" world forever. That is why most career sales people would never do anything else. Sales people can do whatever they like, whenever they like, as long as they are bringing in $$.
2. ROWE = Accountability. In a results driven position you must take 100% accountability for you work and results. This is very difficult for many managers and employees so they prefer "responsibility" over "accountability".
3 Acountability vs. Responsibility. The difference between these 2 words has been discussed in management for over 100 years. This stuff is not new. Under capitalism, ROWE is not always the optimum way to maximize shareholder value. Under communism, ROWE makes more sense.
Just a thought - How much do you want to bet that Tim does not pratice ROWE with his low paid workers in India?
Just a thought - Tim pays little of no US taxes for these workers, they have no health care, they take jobs away from Americans and local school budgets here in America suffer while Tim "hangs" in Japan on the US taxpayer's dime.
I enjoy TIm's blog, but there are 2 sides to every coin. We are enamoured by Tim's exploits because his "exploits" new communications technolgoy for his own gain and bypassed established social systems, gaining great advantages, like US taxes. - Tim is just a classic, talented capitalist.
Tim "Oil Man" Ferris has learned to leverage this new "free & untaxed" global captial, so that he gets excess returns and does not have to work as much as the rest of us.
Nothing wrong with it, but it is not a new concept, trust me.