The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss - Latest Comments in How to Test-Drive Friends and Irritate People

Re: How to Test-Drive Friends and Irritate People

King — Sun, 15 Feb 2009 20:52:01 -0000

Tim!!

I loved this article, and am thoroughly amused by some of the less than savory responses. I thought of a parallel to meeting people in nightclubs and bars.

The people I meet in nightclubs are usually not dateworthy, but they run these tests too! Women will always throw something out there like "buy me a drink" and its the same principle. Attractive women have soo many guys coming up to them, these lines screen the submissive, unconfident, validation seeking and slow witted ones instantly. Its a bit more cruel and unrefined than the situations you stated haha.

happy travels!

King

Re: How to Test-Drive Friends and Irritate People

Denise — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 15:21:42 -0000

@Justin. Great post! The most common factor in all of these situations is a complete lack of personal responsibility (or blame). It's obvious if someone is unwilling to be accountable for their actions and choices.

As far as marriage goes, your partner will always have some quirk or habit that won't exactly be pleasing, but the deciding factor may be whether you can compromise and communicate respectfully. It's easy to focus on negative things (which snowball very quickly) but it's also a choice to remain focused on the positive. Many people now-days see relationships and marriage as a trial period and it makes it very easy to walk away when things get tough. Everyone I know that is still married never gave themselves that option.

Re: How to Test-Drive Friends and Irritate People

Justin — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 02:07:13 -0000

Tim,

Interesting concept! While I have not manufactured situations in order to test, I am hyper observant when I am on a date or considering becoming friends with one of my acquaintances. For the rest of the post I will use the word "subject" to describe either a potential mate or friend.

If one is having dinner with a subject and they begin to discuss how they have been wronged by person x, then continue on to talk about how they will seek their revenge on person x, you can place a winning bet that they will eventually become vindictive towards you if you ever wrong them.

If a subject is rude towards a stranger for a mistake, you had better consider how they will be even more rude towards their friends whom they are comfortable with. For some reason we all live in a dream world thinking that those whom we are most intimate with treat us the best. In reality, it is the other way around. The more familiar and secure one feels in a relationship, the more they are willing to abuse or take advantage of the bond of friendship or love. You probably think I am nuts for saying this but look at how caustic marriages become! During the honey moon all of the quirks were "cute." There was rarely a sour word between the new couple. After fifty years of marriage however, both parties have become familiar with one another and the quirks are no longer cute. I have been around some married couples that really say some awful things to one another when they would never say such things to a perfect stranger.

I think the important thing to take from this concept is that if subjects have destructive people skills or make poor decisions, you must get away from them quick! The decisions of friends and lovers directly affect you!

To illustrate the previous statement I will share a story with you. I was looking at houses once and decided to take my girlfriend with me. One house happend to have a beehive in the wall. I saw the bees because I heard a loud buzzing sound. I looked up and couldn't believe how many bees were sitting on the wall that was functioning as a hive. I immediately walked away from the area and told my girlfriend NOT to go towards that side of the house because of the danger. Wouldn't you know it, she began walking over there! I was very honest with her and said, "if you get swarmed by the bees, I'm not going to help you out." She sobbed and whined about what a jerk I was and how I didn't love her. Let us be realistic here. If I warn someone of impending danger and they do not heed my warning, why then should I stick around to deal with the after effect of pain and suffering?

I am a proponent of many acquaintances and few friends. Most people you meet do not have strong character or manners. When you find someone with good manners and strong character, be their friend, even if your personalities don't naturally fit. They will never get you into trouble, they will always be there for you and you can develop a healthy relationship in which mutual respect sets the ground work for interaction.

Re: How to Test-Drive Friends and Irritate People

NH — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 06:51:29 -0000

Love it! Not sure I'd necessarily try any of your suggestions out on people but I agree that life is too short for 'toxic relationships'. Where's the harm in finding out sooner rather than later that you're not going to want to take a relationship further?

Re: How to Test-Drive Friends and Irritate People

leticia — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 23:13:55 -0000

I love it!!

Tim, could you pls put forward some more scenarios/"tests".

Re: How to Test-Drive Friends and Irritate People

Dr J — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 02:50:00 -0000

Hi Tim,
I wanted to Facebook this entry, but didn't see a FB icon at the end of your post. Hoping you'll add it in.
Oh, I was having dinner and turned off my brain, watched Fast & Furious: Tokyo Drift on HD tv tonight. I kept thinking how the lead character and you were similar, how you're Americans in Japan trying to fit in. Major difference is, you look much much better than that dood. :)
I think you live somewhere in the 'Bay area. I'm in Sacramento, and visit my brother in the 'Bay once in a while. I hope to bump into 1 day. Excuse me if I drop to my knees and kiss your feet. Thanks for improving my life.
No need to respond. Keep up the great work!
Dr J

Re: How to Test-Drive Friends and Irritate People

Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:45:37 -0000

Another trick that deserves a place in your article:

8. suggest to play a game (e.g. tennis) and see how well they take a loss (many people will change like you wouldn't believe it: protest, cheat, contest the rules and what not to avoid losing). This tip comes from Theo Kars (Dutch writer).

Re: How to Test-Drive Friends and Irritate People

Lili — Sat, 03 Jan 2009 14:44:18 -0000

Fascinating article!!! I haven't read all the comments (I don't have the time) but glanced through a few and some people appear to be pissed off about being treated as lab rats... Well, I think life presents "tests" all the time anyway so the issue here is really about observation and judgement. Right?

"How to observe people in stressful situations and predict their behavior in longterm relationships"? These tests make perfect sense and I think I already do this. Waaaaaay too often! When shit happens in my relationships I think to myself - yeah I saw this coming on our first date... :)

I think these tests would also be a good gauge for how the "tester" responds to the tested's perceived "character flaws". Like, how do I judge? How nitpicky am I ? Do I have the same "flaws" that I don't notice in myself?

Sometimes it's not a black and white decision whether to keep or to drop a person from your life. I like the 3-hour hike idea... preferably in a city rather than out in nowheresville.

Re: How to Test-Drive Friends and Irritate People

mose — Fri, 02 Jan 2009 22:18:45 -0000

Well..... according to Eben Pagen and many others, women "test" all the time. Why should only women get the nod. And I would have to agree.As for your methods, I can appreciate the insight gained and feel that there is value in what you are presenting while at the same time there might be room for why someone might have a need to be a super-productive over achiever - it's all about me and never about anybody else incorporated -that must be jet-setting around the world to experience the most of life every living nano -second- not to miss a bit of it- type of individual...... any fear there? If the fits, so be it.

This whole thing may just come down to intent. If it is done to unmask a character flaw fine.( and we all have them- for life they say- hardwired).. but keep in mind it take 2 to dance while there is the one who is "behaving"...........there is the one who is experiencing and reacting to someones behavior. The test goes both ways- lessons on both sides of the movie
peace out

Re: How to Test-Drive Friends and Irritate People

Lisa — Fri, 02 Jan 2009 16:45:40 -0000

Heya Tim,

An interesting post. I'm into multiday endurance adventure sports, many of which are team sports. 3am, second night, sleep deprived, hypoglycaemic and cold... you learn interesting things about people.
I always tell people new to the sport never to race with best friends, long time friends, colleagues or partners. It is sometimes better to know and enjoy the company of these people in your common environment as the stresses of the sport may reveal a side you won't like. Friendships have been ruined.

Another point is that "unfavourable" traits in friends and partners do occur in situations unorchestrated by you. The main thing is that when that trait shows up in glowing neon lights, it is up to you to deal with it. That trait is part of who they are and either you can live with it, or you can't. They won't change (and nor should they because it is who they are). Your call. They will probably not see anything wrong with their behaviour if you bring it up.

So, your options are to either avoid being put in that situation again with that person (like putting a bandaid on the underlying issue) or you terminate the relationship; the latter is likely to happen at some stage because those same situations that brought out the trait you so very much dislike will come up again...and again.

I don't forsee myself orchestrating situations to put friends or partners under stress; but what I do need to do is to act faster on my reservations instead of willing them away.

Re: How to Test-Drive Friends and Irritate People

Rachel Kim — Thu, 01 Jan 2009 23:14:15 -0000

Wow... this is from a year and .. a month ago. If someone did this to me... I would probably freak out. Try it to a scientist... most like me are control freaks. :)

Re: How to Test-Drive Friends and Irritate People

Denise — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 05:05:24 -0000

Bravo for having high standards and a refusal to settle! Its tragic that so many people don't pay attention to the warning signs and then wonder how they end up in a dysfunctional, draining marriage. Communication is key and stress a great factor in evaluating a person's character. Although I do have to say that flexibility and patience are also very commendable qualities.

Lately, I've noticed that some of my friendships are "coming to a close". I can appreciate the person but realize that not everyone is in the same stage of life. Staying in a situation that's not working doesn't serve our potential or capacity (and the other person's).

I even told my mom that I would never travel with her again after our last trip in 2005. Sorry ma. This doesn't mean I don't see her. I just refuse to travel long distances or internationally. Yes, blasphemy. I know.

Re: How to Test-Drive Friends and Irritate People

Dan — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:03:51 -0000

Why are people saying these are harsh tactics? Like these are the worst of all things that can happen in life? The fact is that these are things that happen naturally ALL THE TIME to people, but the problem lies in the fact that you never know when they're going to happen, so it's hard to gauge peoples' reactions (i.e. IT MAY TAKE A LONG TIME, too long for some people to invest--waste), which is the reason for the test.

I've also seen the word "manipulate" being thrown around a lot. Manipulate is a strong word, and sure, this may be "manipulation," but it's very small in comparison with other types of manipulation (marrying people for money, taking advantage of a nice guy, leading people on for sex, etc.)

Right on for a great article, dude.

Re: How to Test-Drive Friends and Irritate People

Io — Thu, 19 Jun 2008 08:59:02 -0000

Tim,

You've mentioned "Minerva Publishing House" as the editor of your book for Romania - however I searched their site (http://www.edituraminerva.ro/ - hope I've got it right) and have not found the book - do you know if it was already published, or it's just "in the planning"? Thanks!

--Io

Re: How to Test-Drive Friends and Irritate People

Wed, 09 Apr 2008 06:05:10 -0000

WOW.
Lookit 'em reactions!
It's like watching a herd of gnu migrating. Sort of head down and charge forward :)

If nothing else your post certainly polarised a few people...
My take on it is that i sort of do a lot of these type of tests (not as elaborate and not as time-consuming) in many little ways. (I also happen to think it's a genetic thing that Venetians in general will do more than other people, except the Irish who also do it...) my view is that those who take offense at this type of behaviour are kind of..."weak". That is unable to handle emotional issues with a certain detachment.

Keep in mind that personally if the response I get is a punch in the mouth as Tim put it, I might not like it, but I wouldn't necessarily think badly of the other person. Their response or reaction can be just as off-the wall as my "testing" them by asking some really inappropriate question, or suggesting a weird change of plans or whatever.

My measure of people is more often linked to how boring or not they are. As a result I know some real freaks of nature, but they are interesting freaks, and more entertaining for it. Now...finding interesting, crazy-yet-weirdly-stable, nymphomaniac-yet-loyal, hot looking and madly in love with you kind of freak...well..that's a big mission and I understand Tim's dilemma if that is what he's still busy doing.

I think testing boundaries from the get go is good...it immediately sorts timid personalities from stronger ones and that is important to do when you know which type you prefer as a certain friend in a certain context.

Unlike Tim though, I am not too concerned if people think I am a bastard. Way I see it I can't be held responsible for my mom not being married way back then, hahaha!

Re: How to Test-Drive Friends and Irritate People

Aaron — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 13:28:11 -0000

Thanks for the "testing" ideas, Tim. It's unbelievable how few people actually have a grasp of people-skills, and how important those skills really are in the workplace. I would be terrified to have a customer be put off by a coworker or employee because of something as preventable as bad behavior or a misunderstanding of the appropriate protocol.

Re: How to Test-Drive Friends and Irritate People

DennisD — Sat, 15 Mar 2008 03:25:37 -0000

Push the envelop. Get personal. Ask unexpected questions. Don't allow dodging. Repeat if necessary. Don't be intimidated or embarassed.

You don't develop relationships walking on eggshells. You don't get the girl by not standing out from the rest

Re: How to Test-Drive Friends and Irritate People

Michelle — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 12:32:07 -0000

Wow what an interesting post. First let me begin by saying that I read your book and it was one of three events that changed the course of my life. If you are familiar with the Enneagaram, I am a 7 and after reading your book I suspect that you are too. I think you would enjoy reading about it if you have not already.

http://www.enneagraminstitu...

I loved your book, however I do not agree with this post. If Joe Schmo is testing Suzy Q, he is disconnecting from her. It’s as if he is on one side and she is on the other. This sounds very fear based: fear of “wasting his time” and fear of not being in control and fear of not having his needs met by her.

If I reflect on life, I see it as an opportunity to experience being alive. That’s it. There is no purpose, there is no meaning. Just an opportunity to be conscious to what is. Noticing what naturally wants to be expressed and allowing that to be expressed. When one is caught up in testing, she is disconnecting from the other person as well as herself.

I think this is a very powerful post and it gave a lot of people food for thought. I certainly used this as an opportunity to digest this post, and evaluate what I think about it. You are entitled to do what you want in your life, and if testing is something that wants to be expressed through you, so be it. There is nothing wrong with that.

Thank you for writing your book, it is very powerful and inspiring. I am also fear based, so I decided to lie down in the middle of a busy restaurant and walked away feeling very elated and empowered!

Cheers,
~Michelle

Re: How to Test-Drive Friends and Irritate People

Alex — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:18:27 -0000

I call it "the nature of the beast".

I have been doing this for years although over longer periods and more naturally occurring situations (although I have to admit that sometimes a little bit of needling on my part helped it along). After you've seen it come out a few times you start to notice the traits that go along with the various different natures. As the years go by you are able to spot the traits of the underlying "nature" faster and more accurately. Of course there are always exception the rule and that's what makes life interesting!

P.S. A note about the crowded subways test, it might just be a safety issue or a bad situation that has happened in the past in a crowded place.

Sometimes it is worth taking a little extra time to open the book and read a few pages.

Re: How to Test-Drive Friends and Irritate People

Adryenn Ashley — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:14:35 -0000

Finally a technique that I can use to verify my intuition! I'm always the one that plans the vacations, takes care of anything that comes up and generally makes things move smoothly! So it always takes a long while before some of these issues come up because I'm always fixing it quickly. I'll lay off the superwoman routine for a while with new friends to make sure they are worth the effort!

Re: How to Test-Drive Friends and Irritate People

Phraedus — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 09:26:10 -0000

If you had two people who both read this article, performing the same test against one another, they would both fail, and stop being friends.

Sometimes the means undermines the ends.

The problem is that in order to test others, you need to perform the same actions which you are trying to root out in friends.

Without a disclaimer such as this article, you're actually weeding out people that can tolerate the things that you cannot tolerate in other people. Their reaction to it will affect your outcome. Worse, if they read this article, which is your disclaimer, it may actually make matters worse, because of the testing.

And yes, I am calling it a hypocritical theory.

Phraedus

Re: How to Test-Drive Friends and Irritate People

geoff — Sun, 17 Feb 2008 23:51:32 -0000

tim-

first time poster - on anything, actually...a bit late to the game... but i'm reading your book and had to thank you for writing it.

how can i get a japanese copy in the US?

###

Hi Geoff,

Thanks for the post! The only thing I can suggest is getting in touch with the closest "Kinokuniya" or ordering from them.

Pura vida,

Tim

Re: How to Test-Drive Friends and Irritate People

tripleX — Sun, 17 Feb 2008 11:28:00 -0000

@ Tim - 142
LOL, but the only things you can tell about me in those situations is if I slept well the night before and/or if I had sex that night.
There are just two things I would like to know about future friends: if they have a good heart and if I can trust them.
If they help an elderly person finding their lost luggage on a rainy christmasday they are okay with me.

Re: How to Test-Drive Friends and Irritate People

Tim Ferriss — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 02:51:41 -0000

Hi All,

From a recent email from a friend:

I've learned that you can tell a lot about a person by the way he/she handles four things:

a rainy day, the elderly, lost luggage, and tangled Christmas tree lights.

G'night,

Tim

Re: How to Test-Drive Friends and Irritate People

Vince Williams — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:20:53 -0000

There's no need to deceive someone to 'test' them, or your relationship with them.

If someone used this skulduggery on me, I would be glad to know the manipulative sort of person they are.

So even though I disapprove the motives and the execution, I heartily encourage this behavior on the part of people so inclined.

It makes winnowing out the rejects that much more efficient.