The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss - Latest Comments in Depression: How You Label Determines How You Feel

Re: Depression: How You Label Determines How You Feel

Deas — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 06:05:23 -0000

Cara,

I was reading your post and it hit that you are really suffering from matters that may seem insurmountable. It may appear there are no options, but there are always options out. The journey out of these hards times is what makes you the unique individual that will one day be something very important to someone else and possibly the world. Its hard to say what our purpose in the world is and how we may impact others positively. It may being there at one second to help an individual redirect their actions to achieve greatness or it may be becoming a world leader. Each has just the level of importance in the grand scheme of things.

A little about myself. I grew up in a divorced family during my turbulent teenage years. I experimented with drugs and petty crime as a teenager. I although had a good foundation that set boundaries for me that basically kept me from doing crazy stuff. My mother died of cancer and prior to that basically lived most of my life in a state of druck anger. I did go to college, made a good living as partner in an Investment company and finally married be it after 40 years. I still have struggles like the breakup of my business with my real estate investment partner in a business that was very rewarding and lucrative at the time. Generally, I have been able to deal with these minor distractions and even in my lowest of times contend I am blessed. I grew up with a heavy and somewhat overbearing Christian background and I do personally believe Jesus saved me from myself. (Please do not hang up yet!)

Not knowing you other than the email descriptor of your life, I usually would not make any assumptions, but I believe you are reaching out and need someone to talk to. I am not a professional shrink and do not really confess to have the clinical answers for you. However, I urge to consider this and not take offense at the suggestion.

I was brought up to believe there was only one thing I was not to ever consider. That was taking my life. I was told that God put me here for a very important purpose and that I would know why when I got to heaven. However, it was not my right regardless of my condition to ever take my life. I could make many choices good and bad, but this was unconditionally unacceptable. Therefore, in all down spots of my life this boundary has always been there keeping me from even considering such a move.

I urge you to accept this boundary and take steps to make your journey out where you and become your god given destiny. I can tell you are a very smart cookie and there is a very important purpose for you in this world If you want to chat, my email is deas at my website listed above. (afraid to put it out on the web due to spam).

PS When I am really down I play a little Bible lottery. I pick it up and turn to any page and see what it tells me. The difference is that I usually win at this lottery!

You can look me up as Deas Nealy and will find me as well if you want to chat.

Re: Depression: How You Label Determines How You Feel

Cara — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 23:26:23 -0000

Tim,
This is the first time I have read your blog. I knew it was sitting here in my in-box. I was feeling really low and wrote out "50 ways to leave your life", since I've already left my so-called "lover". I've got an "in the process of" ex-husband who's been living off me for 7 years despite my trying to get him to end his money losing business. His favourite saying is "I'll do it later", at least it was until I stopped bothering to ask him to help out. For years, he hasn't contributed one red cent to vacations, dinners out, nanny (who I had to let go because I couldn't afford to support him, her and 2 kids), kids' activities, mortgage, cars, you name it. He has a scary temper, yells at my kids and I over the smallest things, and tries to lay the guilt trip on me for his shortcomings (like it's my fault I don't make enough money to support a Nanny, which basically seems to me like one wife hiring another wife to do even more work so he doesn't have to!) My Mum has Alzeimers, my Dad died, my sister has cancer, my dog died last year, my brother is like my "ex" (but fortunately not married so only can hurt himself), my lawyer is incompetent, unethical and greedy, and I have debilitating neck and back pain that the doctor seems to think is not a problem, even though it hurts so much I break down and sob (and I'm not a wimp - I had 2 kids without any medication in my 40's!). I have no support network, I am totally on my own. (your friends will listen to your sob story for only so long - and they're certainly not going to replace the 100's of thousands of dollars your "ex" leeched off you). I have 2 young girls, one of whom is turning out to be rude, mean, demanding, greedy and abusive, just like my "ex" - and she's not even a teenager yet - arrrrgh! I think that's the straw that broke the camel's back. I don't want to live to see her grow up to be just like him! On top of all this a third party is trying to wipe me and my business out. I've been pretty good at picking up self-help stuff over the past year - meditation, chi-gong, pilates, massage, music, herbal tea, healthy food, going out with friends - but I just can't seem to "keep my chin up" and bury all this deep inside anymore.

So, anyway - that's what brought me to your blog. It's a nice distraction, but given that I'm a person suffering from some pretty obvious low self esteem problems (how else could I have stayed in such an abusive relationship?), there's only so much I can do on my own, and I don't have a huge circle of friends. So I guess one observation is this - I agree, you must absolutely, absolutely surround yourself with positive individuals. I left it way too long, and it is threatening to destroy me. As tough as it is for me now, I haven't for a second regretted leaving my "ex". (Aha - I found one positive thought to be grateful for tonight!) For anybody in an abusive relationship, please, please don't suffer for seven years, end it after a year at most (the relationship that is). Abusive people don't change (except for brief periods, when they know they've pushed you too far, then they say "I'm sorry, I love you" in such a way that you later want to nominate them for an Oscar, but at the time you buy it hook, line and sinker!)

Anyway, thanks for reading. Perhaps somebody else will read this and feel like they are not alone - there are actually some people still alive who haven't worked everything out but haven't taken the ultimate "end the pain" step. Yes, I'm wavering but likely have a little more tolerance for suffering if I can find some competent physician to prescribe me some effective "happy drugs" to get me through this. I feel a little calmer now. Think I'll go book that doctor's appointment tomorrow!

- Cara

Re: Depression: How You Label Determines How You Feel

Darren — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:44:45 -0000

Possibly a bit off topic this but I hope that it may help somebody else who finds themselves in the same or similar position I was in 18 Months ago.

1982 I was 12 years old and the local thug, stealing swearing picking a fight with who ever I could, Kicked out of school and sent to a reform school / borstal in Gloucester where I was abused where ½ the school staff later received various Jail terms for offences against children. Not a very nice childhood, but it taught me to fear a few things, the social services just read the news. Schools and divorce.

Me and my ex wife moved house in order to get our child into a new better school, they did not want him as he had a statement for delayed development. One problem after another.

Finally they call in the social services, what a bunch of incompetent morons suggesting this and that problems at home, well my wife was having an affair.

Talk to the local scout leader he has had great positive dealings with our son , School reply ‘that’s not our job’ Social services ‘Somebody in the office will do that’. (6 times I asked)

Depression coming on now, I could feel the blood start to boil over, head of care at this school had the same surname as head of care in Gloucester.

Took my son to a children’s man who could find nothing wrong apart from feeling isolated in this new school.

Worked out the wife was having an affair (which for a Christian type hurts possibly more than for others).

Finally this member of staff at this new school suggests I am abusing my son in some way to the social services and then tells me that an abuse allegation has been made.

Social worker ‘we think foster care might be appropriate’

Now what should I have done?

So I speak to the scout leader and get him to ask me to quote a statement on his behalf ‘he wants contact with anybody concerned with my child’s care as soon as possible before somebody makes a big mistake’ My wife just could not give a care always going to work.

So I go to the school on my own pull one out of the bag, tell the meeting of about 8 staff including the social worker I am recording the meeting, a 20 minute speech I had prepared itemising all the things I felt they had done wrong, how their suggestions were causing so many problems at home. The fact I had done this and that to help but nobody was taking my suggestions seriously, oh and the scout leaders comments, I hate these meetings anyway and I am really struggling not to really fly of the handle.

Put my recording on a disk and took it to the head of the last school asked for some help.

Finally I suffered a nervous breakdown. Come out of hospital and a fortnight later my wife runs off with a pensioner.

Nearly back in hospital but no I have children to care for who I love very dearly.

Fortunately I’ve got our children.

About a year later now and guess no problems at this new school. Social worker could not run away quick enough, Mental health care closed everything, now from the new school ‘We think your son might be on the autistic register’

So if the odds are against you do be afraid to do what’s morally right. Despite it seeming there is not a light at the end of the tunnel suicide is a bad thing. I for one feel so a great deal stronger now.

Re: Depression: How You Label Determines How You Feel

Jill — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 04:38:53 -0000

Hey tim,
like the others above I want to thank you for the way you handled the topic of labelling. Yeah I have a few labels and none of them make me feel great and so I don't use them - I don't want to be an expert on mental illness - and I don't ever intend to be to be a text book study for anyone.

So in general terms I have dealt with depression for most of my life. I accept that I have long episodes of depression - I feel depressed - it is part of the usual cycle for me - but I don't ever want to say "I am depressed" That dis-ease does not define me absolutely - I have a different name. I also worry how we are led into echoing the words of others - "I suffer from depression" Yep is it something we struggle with under suffrance but I am prepared to survive it - well I do my best.

The language and the labels are so important in the way that we can all work to limit the stigma of whatever it is that others want to label what we deal with. I don't want to be a victim I want to be a survivor. And sometimes when I think about it - there are days that I am grateful that I have had to struggle and surivive, deal and cope. There are many wonderful things in my life, many people and experiences that I would not have had the joy of with out that big black dog in my life.

Thanks for the thoughtfulness of your blog

Re: Depression: How You Label Determines How You Feel

Kerri — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 02:48:11 -0000

People's views on depression and reaction to people who are going through it have an immense effect. Some people don't feel that anyone cares. Then they get to a point where everything builds up and they can't stop crying and just want to die. Some of the lucky ones succeed.

Re: Depression: How You Label Determines How You Feel

Jeannie — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 10:18:14 -0000

Tim,
Thanks for touching on this subject which affects millions. I think too many people are numbing out from life with alcohol and drugs and other addictions to stop feeling the pain of their life. We are living in a society that seems to be connected by all the electronic means but yet you see the loneliness and isolation around you on a daily basis. I teach high school students and it is so evident in their lives. Everyone wants to love, be loved and understood.
I have spent years in therapy undoing the faulty thinking and feelings of low self-worth as a person subjected to incestual abuse by an alcoholic father. My faith in God is what pulled me through most of it. I have been in the suicidal stage.
I am 52, unemployed, subbing in a school district going to different schools daily. My husband is unemployed also. These are not circumstances I thought I would be in at my age.
I have found that eating right, exercising are critical when you are going through struggles.
Watch what you see on TV, surround yourself with positive people, music, books and do something to feel you are making strides to get yourself out of the situation you are in. Just don't numb yourself out of life.
This too shall pass.
Jeannie

Re: Depression: How You Label Determines How You Feel

Robert Hammond — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 09:22:27 -0000

Thanks Tim,

Loved your book. This was a great article. I saw Nick speak at my church a few years ago. Very inspirational.

Thanks for keeping this concept in simple terms: eat with friends, watch your labels, and cultivate an attitude of gratitude. It works, if you work it!

Best,

Robert

Re: Depression: How You Label Determines How You Feel

anti depression — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 22:14:02 -0000

Depression is a commonplace event in modern times, taking on many different forms, including physical, sexual, emotional, and verbal abuse, occurring in many different contexts.

Re: Depression: How You Label Determines How You Feel

Daniel — Fri, 16 May 2008 16:19:39 -0000

Thanks for a great post.

I just found this blog and am really enjoying it. I always enjoy intellectual seriousness about serious topics.

On depression--the quantitative + emotionally sensitive approach really opens up most people toward new realities. Well done!

Re: Depression: How You Label Determines How You Feel

Michael Prince — Sat, 19 Apr 2008 20:56:41 -0000

I agree, great post. I think a lot of people who suffer quote from depression are just unsatisfied with their lives and are looking to have people be interested in their lives. Its a way to get attention but in the end it more self destructive then they realize.

Re: Depression: How You Label Determines How You Feel

Francesco Bellafante — Sat, 23 Feb 2008 08:32:21 -0000

You are an inspiration Tim.

This particular post of yours is part of what finally got me "kicked off" online about 7 weeks ago now, after years of contemplative incubation about how to make a big difference for "suffering people."

I think your thinking on this subject is sage, and I am dedicating myself to proliferate this empowering way of thinking in America and the world.

Best regards,
Francesco "Frank" Bellafante

###

Thank you very much for your kind words, Francesco. Best of luck :)

Tim

Re: Depression: How You Label Determines How You Feel

Nick Pagan — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 07:34:12 -0000

My own conclusions on the emotions that we respond to is that they are entirely a result of the desires that we have and how well we fulfill them. If we meet or exceed a desire then we experience positive emotions. If we fail to fulfill a desire then we experience negative emotions. Unfortunately this causal relationship is unknown to most people on the planet. Emotions well up seemingly for no reason and we spend a great deal of our lives responding to those emotions instead of dealing with the underlying problem: managing our desires.

Many of us have desires that are simply impossible to fulfill and yet we don't know this. We keep knocking ourselves out to do the impossible and this continually triggers off negative emotions. Nothing will make you feel bad quicker than wanting the impossible right now. In the end this struggle against impossibility leads to depression and sometimes, tragically, suicide.

To counter depression you have to get clear about what things you desire. If you regularly feel depression it is because you want too many things that you don't have the competency to fulfill. Sometimes you need to develop yourself but sometimes what you want will always prove impossible. When you recognize that you can discard that desire or at least live in awareness of the difficulty of accomplishing it.

To recover from depression go back to what you can do well. Do the things that you have ability to do easily. This gets you firmly grounded and puts you back in touch with your strengths.

This article gives some easy to do tips on getting back that grounding.
http://www.nickpagan.com/bl...

Re: Depression: How You Label Determines How You Feel

Doug Kent — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 22:50:25 -0000

Tim,
Great post, especially with all the rain we've had this month in San Francisco. I definitely agree that meals with family and friends keeps you happy.

You have a great attitude towards life. Keep up the good work. You're making a difference in other people's lives through inspiration and common sense. Loved the book.

Off to dinner now with friends!
Doug

Re: Depression: How You Label Determines How You Feel

Davids dad — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 20:39:11 -0000

akams razor ! circle of life, teach the children...... all have a really profound meaning now, as if they did not before!
i got really depressed and did not even know.

after being abused as a child, after loosing 2 very close friends, i learn't you can only trust your family!
so i spent all or most of my time looking forward keeping out an eye for problems, to the point that due to some odd coediences (sp) and a bit of misfortune i managed to work myself into a right state when my son started secondary school. i shut out my wife, one of my 2 boys and went hell for broke. Linda, mark, David, Emma. i love you very much!
and Davids dad says , David you better behave,

I hope somebody learns from this,
Life's what you make it! and if you don,t or don't know how to make it, excercise, join in, stand tall, smile and if all else fails seek help. professional if necessary.

Re: Depression: How You Label Determines How You Feel

Stephanie — Tue, 29 Jan 2008 23:05:53 -0000

Hi Tim
I am a new subscriber and also interested in the subject of depression. A helpful guide for individuals and their friends and families is to look for these symptoms:
1. Feelings of sadness, hopelessness, ect. that don't go away.
2. Negative thoughts repeating over and over.
3. Thoughts that being gone or dead would be better than this.
4. Actually thinking about dying.
5. Making plans on how to take your own life.

These symptoms can happen in this order or not and over a period of weeks or months. These are my own observations. It is wise to seek help if any of these are present. Unfortunately, for those suffering from clinical depression, these thoughts are a symptom just like a cough is a symptom of a cold. The brain is an organ of the body just like all the others and can get sick - the big difference is that the brain will effect how you think and feel. That's the tricky part. I do agree with the positive advice from everyone on how you look at things. It's important, though, not to overlook that if that is not enough, getting help should be the next step.
Thanks for your post - it has gotten some great comments!

Re: Depression: How You Label Determines How You Feel

gaetano — Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:22:01 -0000

what we say to us has a strong effect sure on our brain (on us!)-

but lets not forget depression is NOT out of nowhere- it has to do with (perceived) reality- it is a way to stop and try to think better- sometimes the solution is about seeing reality more accurately (saying to yourself...) some other time it is about changing reality (for real!!)- and most of the times it is both things at the same time!-

depression is also, neurologically, about chemical un-balance in your neurons- if you are on the right track of changing things, it makes a lot of sense to consider medications as a SHORT TERM tool, in order to speed up the re-balancing of those chemicals: in a lot of cases depression (hardware) goes with OTHER "software" problems (like low selfesteem) which could sabotage an healthy change process in its infancy- in those cases it could make sense to shut depression down artificially and let the new changed lifestyle sink in (goal being stopping meds asap) in our psychology (software)

Re: Depression: How You Label Determines How You Feel

Ishta — Tue, 29 Jan 2008 12:57:54 -0000

Saying to yourself, "I'm depressed" really is a sure way to stay that way. I think it helps to distract the mind by, say, doing something else mentally engaging enough to distract the negative self-talk or boost self-esteem. Maybe try helping a friend or loved one with something important or teach something you're good at. Moods can change very quickly.

Re: Depression: How You Label Determines How You Feel

Sheridan Flynn — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 03:45:57 -0000

Hi Tim, lovely post. You clearly touched a lot of people out there. Check out Anthony de Mello www.tonydemello.wordpress.com. Very interesting writing on how we view the world. take care, Sheridan.

Re: Depression: How You Label Determines How You Feel

Dr Martin Russell — Mon, 28 Jan 2008 00:14:35 -0000

One of the best responses to Heath's death I have seen.

Hadn't dared to comment on these issues on my blog before, but now I will so I can link back to this post.

The treatment suggestions in these comments are equally fascinating.

Most of the self-help is Tony Robbins, or NLP.

There is a bunch of naturopathy, diet, exercise cures.

And a bunch of "clinical depression is a different entity entirely" comments too.

Personally I think medicine is much too quick to make a dividing line between "psychiatric/biological illness" and "psychological / personal development issues". The problem then becomes if you shift the line one way you get underrecognition. If you shift it the other way you get disease-mongering. There is more grey-zone.

You have hot-line phone numbers for professional help. Can I add a resource for people to stay safe taking sleeping pills...

http://www.SelfHelpSleeping...

Re: Depression: How You Label Determines How You Feel

Charon — Sun, 27 Jan 2008 21:32:27 -0000

Thank you for this.

Living life as in the performing arts brings a huge amount of ups and downs but I try to remember where the richness of my life really is. Generally, it's right in front of me and I strive to be awake and aware enough to really see it.

Thanks again.

Re: Depression: How You Label Determines How You Feel

gaetano — Sun, 27 Jan 2008 21:19:42 -0000

third time I try to post a totally decent comment- possibly useful-

depression in many cases can be a little more complex of a phenomena- in particular it becomes so when it interconnects with other behavioral conditions, like attention deficit (very bad definition) and dissociation- there is dense research and results in this specific field, just very hard to find out about it- one possibly useful place is this one www.gettingunstuckthebook.com

Re: Depression: How You Label Determines How You Feel

gaetano — Sun, 27 Jan 2008 21:13:07 -0000

duality of the perceived world (night-day, good-evil, ying-yang etc.) is likely mirrored (or generated?) straight in the neurological mechanism of our brain-

in short, as Tim implies, what you think about the brain or its sickness, influence it- thats true for every social reality, think about financial bubbles for example..

that premised, I wanted to stress that things may be a little more complex than what seems to be written in today's post (which bby the way I think is right, per se)

take a look at this knowledgeable new york psychiatrist website (and book)- It is about the two-way interconnections between depression dissociation and so called attention deficit disorder ("so called" because thats a very bad and misleading definition of the phenomenon)

Re: Depression: How You Label Determines How You Feel

cathlawson — Sun, 27 Jan 2008 21:05:41 -0000

Hi Tim - thank you for addressing this issue with your sensitive post. Suicide is a terrible thing. And I had no idea how common it was before the Internet, particularly among teenagers.

If it will help others, I don't mind admitting that I have contemplated suicide in the past. I was suffering from PTSD and part of that is severe depression.

Before it happened to me, I assumed that people who committed suicide preplanned it. Then, I saw a knife and I suddenly had this urge to harm myself. It was quite terrifying.

I knew it was wrong and harming myself would have a devastating affect on others and luckily I managed to stop myself from doing it and get medical help. I felt like that a few times afterwards, but I knew it was wrong and the feeling would pass if I ignored it.

If anyone does have the same strange feeling or urge that I had, they should get help as soon as possible. If you don't have friends or family around who can help - go to your GP, or call one of the numbers that Tim mentioned.

Re: Depression: How You Label Determines How You Feel

gaetano — Sun, 27 Jan 2008 20:43:51 -0000

Duality of world, the way we conceive it (negative-positive, ying yang, night and day etc.), leads to consider the existence of duality as a principle imprinted into the neurological mechanisms (hardware) of our brain. There are lots of clues of that, and I believe it is a logical consequence of the duality of the (our) world the way we perceive it (and a premise at the same time- or maybe just a premise!?!).

in short, the brain is NOT indipendent at all from what you think about it- if it is sick (DEPRESSION), a lot of that (not all) is clearly influenced by WHAT you think about the sickness itself (and NOT just the other way around).

now, thats premised, please take a better look at the neurological basis of depression, specifically to its interrelation with so called (very badly defined) attention deficit disorder- things are a little more complex than what looks like, still not too complicated necessarily-

i would recommend you to take a look to the site and book of this very knowledgeable new york psychiatrist www.gettingunstuckthebook.com

Re: Depression: How You Label Determines How You Feel

Raina Gustafson — Sat, 26 Jan 2008 16:55:33 -0000

I appreciate the post and all the previous comments. I'll just tack on a couple of additional thoughts and resources that some may find helpful.

In my experience, the mainstream medical community is both lacking in adequate diagnostic tools, and is too quick to prescribe. I've read that 1 out of every 6 women's doctor visits (to all doctors - not just psychiatrists) results in a prescription for anti-depressants. That seems pretty out of control.

It's been explained to me that SSRI's (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) work by tricking the body into thinking there is twice as much serotonin in the system as there actually is. This tends to be sporadically effective since it's fully possible that someone's serotonin level - even when doubled - is inadequate.

Further, mainstream medicine is perfectly willing to prescribe these medications without doing any diagnostic testing to determine if there truly is a serotonin (or any other) deficiency. I feel that this is for all practical purposes unethical.

In contrast, a naturopath may be more likely to order blood, urine and saliva analysis to determine the presence of neurotransmitter and other nutrient deficiencies, toxicities and imbalances - and only then prescribe supplements or medications as appropriate, and follow-up to ensure they are being absorbed.

For anyone interested, the lab that I got my testing done is at www.neurorelief.com. They can refer a doctor to order the testing. Of course, it is unlikely that insurance will cover the expense, however I feel it is worth every penny. What is more valuable than your peace of mind?

While I agree with what others have said about exercise, fresh air, friends, family, attitude and more, if you sense you may be suffering from a temporary or chronic chemical imbalance, why not try to find relief by testing your body for what it really needs before resorting to meds with all their known side effects?